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list price hi everyone and welcome back

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to that UFO podcast my name is Andy and

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of the many topics I have and haven't

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covered or devoted time to on the

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podcast in over three years now almost

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three years I should say uh one of those

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is crop circles the one that has split

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opinion amongst the many different UFO

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communities my two guests are experts in

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the very topic and I am delighted to be

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joined by firstly someone middle over 30

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years of research on the subject of crop

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circles a highly respected writer

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speaker with work fusing art

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spirituality psychology and philosophy

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best known as writer behind nearly

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published crop circle yearbooks 99 to

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2020 and crop circles signs wonders and

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Mysteries I'm going to put Arcturus 2006

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and are updated in 2009-2013 Karen just

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because it's there I've got Karen

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Alexander Karen welcome at the podcast

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thank you very much Andy

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hope that wasn't too long-winded for you

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or for anyone else I hope I got the

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stuff right and also I've got a

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researcher with himself over 25 years of

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experience for starting to look at the

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crop circle phenomenon in 1997. he

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caught public attention in 2007 when he

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was a primary witness with two others to

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a newly formed crop soccer formation

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which we can hear about a little later

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on the podcast a filmmaker and

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photographer in his own right he brings

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a wealth of knowledge and experience to

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the conversation welcome to Gary King

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Gary welcome to the podcast pleasure to

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be here Andy thank you for having me

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I can breathe now good to have you both

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on uh and it's nice to have two guests

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I'm so used to just the one and that's

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going to happen a few times in the next

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month or so listen before we get started

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delivering any crop circles I've got a

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lot of questions myself on that and so

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did the listeners from the response I

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had I was just mentioning that to both

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of you I'd like to get a little bit of

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background on you both Karen we'll start

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with you I've known you longer and we've

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known each other now a couple of years

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and this has been a long time in the

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making genuinely I think about two years

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ago I first said I need to get you on to

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talk about the crop circle topic

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conversation so um a little bit on your

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own background please now you got

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involved in the UFO subject

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um I first got involved in the UFO

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subject back in 1990

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um and that was through seeing pictures

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of them in the newspapers in the UK and

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in 1990 the papers were full of crop

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circles

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um and I saw I think probably the

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picture of the Big East field formation

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from that year and for those of you that

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don't know what crop circle that is it's

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the one that ended up on the the Led

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Zeppelin front cover

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um and um and that was so that was the

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first crop circle I ever saw was um I

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think I was about 20 years old 21 years

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old something like that

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um and it was just one of those you know

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hit you in the forehead moments I just

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was absolutely wowed by it

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um

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one of those incredible wow moments so

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from then I just wanted to to learn as

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much as I could about it I was very

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fortunate in those days there used to be

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a center for crop circle studies in the

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UK which was kind of like a broad

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network of researchers all over and I

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got involved with them for a number of

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years and got to meet a lot of other

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um researchers my own personal

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background

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um is the time a trained psychotherapist

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um I don't practice anymore I worked for

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a very well known UK charity for a

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number of years as a as a therapist

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um I now

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um do all kinds of bits and pieces but

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mostly um do a little bit of teaching of

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geometry and art and I run a few courses

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doing that but that's kind of basically

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my background

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geometry and art sound very relevant to

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the crop circle topic so you're well

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versed to speak on all of those I'm sure

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and then Gary same for yourself please

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uh right okay I was I was um I got a

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background in law I was a legal

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executive and private investigator owner

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and private investigation agency in

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London and also worked in South Wales

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and in other places as a private

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investigator

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um in 1996 end of 1996 I sort of had a

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bit of a life crisis with a bit of

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reversal breakdown really night tired

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exhausted burnt out that kind of stuff

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suffered a bit of burnout

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so I was taking some time out to do tai

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chi and yoga and meditation and learn

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about all those kind of groovy things

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and um met a guy who said he was over

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from America and he was going to visit

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the crop circles so I asked to go along

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and one day in July 1997 I went to Alton

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Barnes in which this famous hot spot

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that Karen mentioned earlier and um

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there was a newly formed crop circle

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that had appeared the night before

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um and I went inside that cop Circle and

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I always say that really I don't think I

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ever left then that was

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there was just so many things that sort

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of took place at that time and I think

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that coinciding with my sort of life's

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change it set me into a a different

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direction a completely different

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direction in my life still investigating

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still researching still making Arguments

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for and against which my background sort

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of allows me to do but um yeah that was

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it really and from then on I spent 10

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years just going down I lived in Cardiff

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traveling from Cardiff to Wiltshire

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during the summer months to visit crop

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circles and kept my head down really at

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first and just sort of made my own

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conclusions about things and then as you

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mentioned earlier in 2007 I was there

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with a couple of other people and we

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were recording a field

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um on camera that night and in this huge

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crop circle was there in the morning

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that wasn't there the night before and

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that's when I sort of became sort of a

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little bit more well-known with the crop

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circles and began speaking and doing TV

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interviews and so on so thanks for that

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both of you obvious question Gary you've

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brought up that uh 2007 Satan so we'll

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dip into that a little bit first then

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before we get maybe Back to Basics

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the Skeptics who listen to this and I'm

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I believe there's a genuine Phenomenon

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with crop circles that's where my

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personal belief and I don't always share

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them depending on interviews but I'll be

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honest there's a lot of them I think

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would likely be man-made I also think

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you can tell most of the man-made ones

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just due to the way they look the

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geometry of it you know a bit fuzzy

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around the edges all that kind of stuff

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um but I'm certainly no expert on them

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but a skeptic would ask and it's a fair

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question I'm sure you've got a good

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answer for it too you were there

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recording the night before in the field

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um what were you recording for was it

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known that that was an area for kind of

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high strangeness or was it some other

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project uh I wasn't recording myself so

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it was another man who was a UFO sort of

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Hunter his name is Winston Keach he

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regularly I found out after the event

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regularly trans uh well no it's actually

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before that I had met him the day before

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and he told me that he comes down

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regularly in the summer months to you

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know investigate UFOs and so on and so

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forth and he's got some camera equipment

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and he picks various spots to record and

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he was interviewed at the time and they

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and he was asked why did you choose that

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field because he was going around

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scouting locations that night

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um and apparently he'd driven into the

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Napier car park and his dog he had a

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rescue dog with him well acted really

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strangely at that car park at that time

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and he said that's what made me think

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okay I'm gonna go here tonight and uh I

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was I'd met him as I said coincidentally

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in the day in the cop Circle Cafe so I

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saw a new him from that briefing in

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interaction but it wasn't until later

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around sort of one o'clock in the

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morning when my girlfriend and I walked

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up the hill we saw him there and so then

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we had this chance encounter and he

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explained that he got all this camera

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equipment and he was there searching for

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UFOs and he told us a story about 20

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years ago

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um that he'd seen or watched this ball

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of light go across East field in the

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exactly the same location

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he said that this was like 1996 I think

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he said it was uh this ball of light

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sort of went across the field he said it

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opened up to around 20 feet in diameter

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uh he heard some wheat rustling he

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thought he did anyway and then this ball

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closed off and shot across the veil of

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pusey he said he didn't have time to

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even key up his his you know sort of

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camcorder that he had at the time and so

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that had spurred him to get more and

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more sophisticated equipment and every

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year travel down from Yorkshire to try

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and catch this thing in action again

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and then so so we sat in so that's great

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story and then I told him that I'd been

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looking into them for 10 years and then

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because it was 777 we just thought you

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know because I hadn't done night watches

273
00:10:11,630 --> 00:10:09,959
before it wasn't my thing really to

274
00:10:12,650 --> 00:10:11,640
catch another thing in action but I

275
00:10:14,750 --> 00:10:12,660
thought it would be great it was lovely

276
00:10:15,829 --> 00:10:14,760
as my girlfriend was a good idea we'd

277
00:10:17,329 --> 00:10:15,839
had some we'd had some strange

278
00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:17,339
coincidences as well that happened in

279
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:18,959
the day that sort of we took his signs

280
00:10:22,670 --> 00:10:20,880
you know to say oh yeah great

281
00:10:24,650 --> 00:10:22,680
and so we you know that was it really

282
00:10:27,050 --> 00:10:24,660
and we met up on that fateful night and

283
00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:27,060
sat there talking

284
00:10:31,009 --> 00:10:29,100
um wind had started recording just

285
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:31,019
before it got dark so that's why we know

286
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,120
that there was nothing there before it

287
00:10:37,370 --> 00:10:35,040
got dark which is close to 11 o'clock in

288
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:37,380
the peak of British summer time and we

289
00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:38,640
got there around one o'clock or

290
00:10:43,070 --> 00:10:40,980
something 1 30 I think it was

291
00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:43,080
and then about 20 past three there was

292
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:45,480
this flash of light and it was Pitch

293
00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:47,519
back pitch black and we were in the

294
00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:48,600
midst of this really interesting

295
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:50,220
conversation because wind's quite an

296
00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:51,360
interesting guy

297
00:10:55,490 --> 00:10:53,880
and then about 15 or 20 minutes later he

298
00:10:57,530 --> 00:10:55,500
said I'm going to do a scan of the field

299
00:10:58,550 --> 00:10:57,540
and he opened up this viewfinder of the

300
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:58,560
camera and

301
00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:00,240
quickly urged us to get out of our

302
00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:01,920
sleeping bags and unwrap ourselves in

303
00:11:05,569 --> 00:11:03,899
these blankets and have a look at the

304
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:05,579
viewfinder and that's when we saw this

305
00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:07,260
it's huge we couldn't even make it out

306
00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:08,820
completely just saw lots and lots of

307
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:10,200
circles we couldn't see the whole design

308
00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:12,240
we had to wait another 20 minutes or so

309
00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:13,740
until the light came up before we could

310
00:11:17,870 --> 00:11:14,820
really see it

311
00:11:20,690 --> 00:11:17,880
so that's how it all happened

312
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,700
for you there was no question that no

313
00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:22,800
one had gone down there unbeknownst to

314
00:11:25,310 --> 00:11:24,420
you it's dark it's a field you know

315
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,320
someone could have been down here

316
00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:27,600
without you seeing but there was none of

317
00:11:31,310 --> 00:11:29,700
that there was no signs that someone was

318
00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:31,320
down there or people were there with

319
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,000
equipment making these circles and for

320
00:11:36,829 --> 00:11:35,279
you there was a genuine phenomena card

321
00:11:38,810 --> 00:11:36,839
yeah is that the feeling you got yeah

322
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:38,820
yeah I mean for a number of reasons and

323
00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:40,140
I've made this argument you know many

324
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:41,700
times over the years and nobody's ever

325
00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:42,959
been able to sort of come forward and

326
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:45,000
say oh yes but you know you're not

327
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:47,820
you're not thinking about this so in the

328
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:49,260
in the you know in the ensuing years

329
00:11:52,329 --> 00:11:51,300
I've yet to have anybody that's come up

330
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:52,339
and said

331
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:54,839
made a counter argument to the to the

332
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:56,760
events that took place which can satisfy

333
00:12:01,310 --> 00:11:59,279
me and those are yes we never heard

334
00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:01,320
anything we never saw anything we have

335
00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:03,180
videoed people making crop circles and

336
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,500
when they do it at night they usually

337
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:06,000
use head torches and they make an awful

338
00:12:09,530 --> 00:12:07,980
lot of noise screaming at each other to

339
00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,540
go left and right and so on and so forth

340
00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:11,459
we heard none of that and none of that

341
00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:13,620
was picked up on the cameras

342
00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:15,420
um but the big thing for me is the time

343
00:12:22,009 --> 00:12:18,300
frame number one the time of frame

344
00:12:23,870 --> 00:12:22,019
um if we round up from 11 11 pm until

345
00:12:26,990 --> 00:12:23,880
about 4 a.m in the morning we've got

346
00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:27,000
five hours yeah that's 300 minutes there

347
00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:31,320
were 150 individual circles ranging in

348
00:12:33,949 --> 00:12:32,700
size

349
00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:33,959
um the biggest ones being around 100

350
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:35,640
they weren't actually circles because of

351
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:37,140
the undulating ground that they were on

352
00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:38,880
that's another story but the biggest

353
00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:41,220
circle measured I think 161 feet by

354
00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:42,839
about 140 or something because they're

355
00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:44,700
oval to make them look circular from

356
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:46,440
above as they go across the browser sort

357
00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:47,279
of

358
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:54,420
um and so time frame you know 150

359
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,440
circles

360
00:12:58,430 --> 00:12:57,120
um in 300 minutes means that they would

361
00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:58,440
have had to make one every two minutes

362
00:13:01,790 --> 00:13:00,120
without lights without anybody

363
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,800
coordinating the efforts without us

364
00:13:04,610 --> 00:13:03,120
three witnessing it without anything

365
00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:04,620
being picked up on the cameras that

366
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,660
we're recording two sets of cameras the

367
00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:07,680
whole time

368
00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:09,660
when I've watched people make crop

369
00:13:16,009 --> 00:13:12,899
circles for example the Mozilla Firefox

370
00:13:17,449 --> 00:13:16,019
crop circle that was made by 12 students

371
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:17,459
um I'm not sure when it was now it was

372
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:19,860
back in early 2000 they took 23 hours to

373
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,079
make a 200 foot circle when you went

374
00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:24,240
inside the whole crop was trash there

375
00:13:27,650 --> 00:13:25,800
were clear post holes where they've been

376
00:13:31,009 --> 00:13:27,660
whacking in posts and so on and so forth

377
00:13:32,690 --> 00:13:31,019
there was in my view no comparison to

378
00:13:33,949 --> 00:13:32,700
the size and scale of the formation that

379
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:33,959
appeared in front of us in the time

380
00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:36,300
frame without any evidence being filmed

381
00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:38,700
on camera or witnessed by the three of

382
00:13:43,389 --> 00:13:40,680
us that were there so that's that's what

383
00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:45,410
I've just been looking at it as you've

384
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:47,160
described it as well and it's incredibly

385
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:49,019
intricate it's not one of the more basic

386
00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:51,420
ones I'll certainly give it that

387
00:13:57,050 --> 00:13:54,600
um and if that was man-made

388
00:13:59,870 --> 00:13:57,060
yeah that's that's not four or five

389
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:59,880
hours of work no maybe four or five

390
00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:00,839
weeks

391
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:03,240
um looking at it from from here um but I

392
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:04,560
wanted to get back to basics because

393
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:05,760
thank you for sharing that Gary I

394
00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:07,200
appreciate it we'll go into more detail

395
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,240
and some of those other cases too

396
00:14:13,850 --> 00:14:11,279
um I'm going to ask you a really obvious

397
00:14:15,710 --> 00:14:13,860
question Karen but I want to get all the

398
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:15,720
listener bases covered here for folks

399
00:14:19,850 --> 00:14:17,700
who maybe are less familiar if someone

400
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,860
came up to you and what do you mean crop

401
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:22,079
circle what's a crop circle how do you

402
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,760
define that to people actually that's a

403
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,160
really good question because

404
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:27,600
um one thing that I've found over the

405
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,800
years is actually people are a little

406
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,600
bit confused about what actually

407
00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:33,120
constitutes a crop circle so

408
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:36,060
so on its most very basic level

409
00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:40,440
um a crop circle is a circle of crop and

410
00:14:46,129 --> 00:14:43,139
usually it's flattened and swirled and

411
00:14:48,050 --> 00:14:46,139
but we also have all kinds of other

412
00:14:50,569 --> 00:14:48,060
um beautiful things going on in delayed

413
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,579
crop of some of the circles which

414
00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:52,320
will come back to

415
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,300
um but the crop isn't sort of cut or

416
00:15:00,290 --> 00:14:57,180
moan or anything like that it is it is

417
00:15:02,210 --> 00:15:00,300
flattened very often when you go in a

418
00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:02,220
new Circle where there haven't been many

419
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:04,620
visitors you'll find that the crops are

420
00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:07,800
not laid right flat to the floor

421
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,160
um there's usually maybe two sometimes

422
00:15:17,329 --> 00:15:14,160
more inches and and then the crops sort

423
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:17,339
of go over they'll they'll swirly swirl

424
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,480
either

425
00:15:23,389 --> 00:15:20,880
um anti-clockwise or clockwise

426
00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:23,399
um and some of them just look incredible

427
00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:26,220
they have to be seen to be believed it's

428
00:15:31,069 --> 00:15:28,500
sort of you look at them and then it

429
00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:31,079
looks like sort of water

430
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:33,300
um sort of running water in it and some

431
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:34,920
of them just look absolutely fantastic

432
00:15:40,850 --> 00:15:38,399
now they occur in all kinds of crops

433
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:40,860
um so in the UK the crops that we grow

434
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:43,740
most over here would be crops like oil

435
00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:45,540
seed rate which is when you see the

436
00:15:50,509 --> 00:15:47,820
yellow flowers in in the fields usually

437
00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:50,519
around about this time of year and then

438
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:53,880
barley and then wheat and then sometimes

439
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,740
we might get through to Maize which is

440
00:15:59,750 --> 00:15:57,839
like corn on the cob which is these huge

441
00:16:02,150 --> 00:15:59,760
great plants

442
00:16:05,389 --> 00:16:02,160
um you know taller than me very often

443
00:16:07,069 --> 00:16:05,399
um and um and so those are the ones in

444
00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:07,079
in the UK and the other thing that

445
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:09,060
people sometimes forget is that crop

446
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:10,680
circles don't just happen here they

447
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:12,800
actually happen all over the world so

448
00:16:18,970 --> 00:16:16,260
they happen again in whatever crops are

449
00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:18,980
predominantly grown in that kind of of

450
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,500
country so with the US for instance you

451
00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:24,839
get a lot in Maize you get a lot in soya

452
00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:27,300
because that's a big crop over there

453
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:29,399
we've even had them reported in rice

454
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,760
paddy fields in Japan

455
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:35,040
um and I mean in this country we've had

456
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:37,500
them in borage which is like a herbal

457
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:38,880
plant it has these beautiful blue

458
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,920
flowers on it

459
00:16:46,009 --> 00:16:43,620
um beads linseed which is often grown

460
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:46,019
over here beans one year I think broad

461
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:47,519
beans

462
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:50,519
um so yeah all kinds of different plants

463
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:54,180
but mostly it will be sort of barley and

464
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,399
wheat those are the main ones in in the

465
00:17:01,610 --> 00:16:58,680
UK and as I say that the crops are not

466
00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:01,620
mono cut they are sort of gently laid

467
00:17:05,569 --> 00:17:03,000
down

468
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:05,579
um usually in a in a swirl but sometimes

469
00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:07,799
in other patterns as well

470
00:17:13,730 --> 00:17:10,500
sometimes

471
00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:13,740
yeah sure in more recent years people

472
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,140
tend to look at UFO sightings and look

473
00:17:21,470 --> 00:17:18,720
for several of the five observables

474
00:17:23,030 --> 00:17:21,480
depending on speed you know trans medium

475
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:23,040
travel

476
00:17:29,330 --> 00:17:26,400
um no noise and I'm bastardizing those

477
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:29,340
apologies but is there such a list for

478
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,860
crop circles where you go into a new

479
00:17:37,070 --> 00:17:33,840
crop circle and think I'm looking for

480
00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:37,080
some of these main identifiers as a

481
00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:39,000
lemon to crop circles one thing I've

482
00:17:42,409 --> 00:17:40,919
heard about and read about and this has

483
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,419
been something that stuck with me for a

484
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,640
long time and one of the things I would

485
00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:46,799
think that would be incredibly difficult

486
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:49,320
if not impossible for a human to do

487
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:52,799
as on the stocks of the the you know the

488
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:55,620
crop being bent there are like uh joints

489
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,900
where there are little seeds and I'm

490
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,460
writing saying those are tend to be

491
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:01,440
popped out in many of them and there

492
00:18:06,110 --> 00:18:03,660
would be like tens of thousands due to

493
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:06,120
either radiation or heat and those pop

494
00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:08,000
out as they're being bent over which

495
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,860
even at you know 20 students or 200

496
00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:12,960
students couldn't go down the crops

497
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:15,000
individually popping out all those kind

498
00:18:18,409 --> 00:18:16,740
of points I'm not too sure of the

499
00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:18,419
technical name of them but is that the

500
00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:20,100
sort of thing where we're looking at and

501
00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:21,720
what else would be looked for yeah so

502
00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:23,220
what you're describing there is actually

503
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:26,820
some of the effects to crops that were

504
00:18:31,789 --> 00:18:29,940
noted by a by American biophysicist

505
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:31,799
called William levingood he's not with

506
00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:33,840
us anymore unfortunately who did a lot

507
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:35,340
of

508
00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:36,500
um scientific

509
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:39,480
analysis plant samples from crop circles

510
00:18:45,049 --> 00:18:42,299
both in the US and in the UK he was

511
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:45,059
us-based he had a background in working

512
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,640
for excuse me sea growing companies in

513
00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,919
the US so he was familiar with working

514
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,900
with crops so yep so what you're

515
00:18:55,850 --> 00:18:53,520
describing there is what he would call

516
00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:55,860
expulsion cavities so you're right if

517
00:19:00,529 --> 00:18:57,960
you look at a barley or a wheat stem

518
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:00,539
you'll see as the you go up the scent

519
00:19:04,669 --> 00:19:03,480
the stem several of these sort of fleshy

520
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:04,679
um parts of the stem they're called

521
00:19:09,529 --> 00:19:06,600
nodal points and they're essentially

522
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,539
where they do two things one is they

523
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:11,760
it's where the plant stores its moisture

524
00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:14,340
and it's also where growth comes from as

525
00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:15,660
well

526
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:17,340
um and there can be several effects to

527
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,360
those

528
00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:20,400
um one of the facts that you described

529
00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:22,380
is kind of kind of like this popping

530
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:23,940
where

531
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:28,500
been popped from the inside out and the

532
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:30,840
other one is nodal bending where very

533
00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:33,200
often the nodes will be both elongated

534
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:36,660
and also will be bent usually in the

535
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:38,460
direction of whichever direction the

536
00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:41,160
crop itself is is laid

537
00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:43,500
um and um he believed that this was

538
00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:47,640
caused by some kind of microwave energy

539
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:48,900
um although he could never say where

540
00:19:54,409 --> 00:19:52,080
that might to come from and that was his

541
00:19:56,029 --> 00:19:54,419
belief so so the expulsion cavities

542
00:19:58,730 --> 00:19:56,039
would be a little bit like putting

543
00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:58,740
popcorn in your microwave so they heat

544
00:20:02,990 --> 00:20:00,840
from the inside out so that the moisture

545
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:03,000
Heats from the inside out and it causes

546
00:20:08,810 --> 00:20:06,120
um these these nodal points to Pop

547
00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:08,820
um and the same with the um with the no

548
00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:11,580
delongation as well and and he's he it

549
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:13,260
was his belief

550
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:15,299
um according to his research

551
00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:18,360
um that um whatever was causing this was

552
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:20,820
the application of some kind of

553
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,980
microwave energy for a very short

554
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:25,200
fraction of a second and it would just

555
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:27,179
be enough to heat

556
00:20:31,010 --> 00:20:28,559
um the moisture in the plants to get

557
00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:31,020
them to lie flat

558
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,240
um and and as far as I know that was

559
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:35,760
kind of the extent of what he was able

560
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:37,860
to discover by looking

561
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,720
um at the plants now I'm not a scientist

562
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:41,280
I have to tell you this so full

563
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:42,960
disclosure here as you know I'm not a

564
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:44,460
scientist so

565
00:20:48,650 --> 00:20:46,380
um I don't know but he wrote many

566
00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:48,660
research papers on this and if you're

567
00:20:51,529 --> 00:20:50,340
interested in that you can go and have a

568
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:51,539
look at them because they're online

569
00:21:03,529 --> 00:21:00,770
um and um that's where lemon Goods

570
00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:03,539
research papers and so on can be found

571
00:21:08,350 --> 00:21:05,820
and it's some of them are a fascinating

572
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:08,360
read he also did work into

573
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,140
soils

574
00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:12,960
um and and other other things as well I

575
00:21:18,289 --> 00:21:16,200
know that he looked at soils where there

576
00:21:21,049 --> 00:21:18,299
had been cattle mutilations for instance

577
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,059
so it kind of widened out his interest

578
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:23,880
into sort of um cattle mutilations and I

579
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:26,039
think also some UFO landing sites as

580
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:28,440
well so he was an interesting guy and

581
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:30,780
you know and as I say I'm not

582
00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:33,240
I've kind of told you as much as I can

583
00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:34,620
sort of say

584
00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:37,260
um you know without overstepping them up

585
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,240
because as I say I'm not a scientist but

586
00:21:43,549 --> 00:21:41,760
that's as I understand it no no

587
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,559
no I appreciate that because that's the

588
00:21:46,909 --> 00:21:45,120
one that's always stuck with me and it

589
00:21:48,169 --> 00:21:46,919
was in some documentary years and years

590
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,179
ago that I watched I always remember

591
00:21:52,610 --> 00:21:49,919
that really stood out as well that would

592
00:21:54,649 --> 00:21:52,620
be incredibly hard to do or replicate

593
00:21:56,330 --> 00:21:54,659
like Gary says even with groups of

594
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,340
students you know you you can't

595
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:58,799
physically replicate that um and Gary I

596
00:22:03,049 --> 00:22:00,299
would ask you the same question that if

597
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:03,059
you're going into an investigation a

598
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,580
newly formed crop formation what sort of

599
00:22:09,649 --> 00:22:08,280
signs are you looking for

600
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,659
um mine aren't scientific because I'm

601
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:11,280
not a scientific scientist Ivory it's

602
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,740
mostly based on experience of going into

603
00:22:18,169 --> 00:22:16,080
lots and lots of crop circles and um and

604
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:18,179
so it would be the conditions under

605
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,460
which I knew it appeared so if we were

606
00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:22,080
absolutely sure that it wasn't there the

607
00:22:25,549 --> 00:22:24,059
night before and it was discovered at

608
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,559
first light and I knew that it had

609
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:27,720
appeared in five or six hours before

610
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:29,940
somebody had found it then that would be

611
00:22:33,649 --> 00:22:31,620
the first indicator or there might be

612
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:33,659
something here because I know if

613
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,640
anybody's ever been to Wiltshire there

614
00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:37,440
are no street lights these are areas

615
00:22:42,049 --> 00:22:39,780
farming areas which go completely dark

616
00:22:44,210 --> 00:22:42,059
at night so if anybody does put a torch

617
00:22:46,669 --> 00:22:44,220
on you could literally see that light

618
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:46,679
from a long way away it's very very

619
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:47,820
detectable

620
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,860
so so that'll be the first thing then

621
00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:51,360
when I walk in them and I have been

622
00:22:55,010 --> 00:22:53,220
fortunate enough to go into crop circles

623
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:55,020
early in the morning because you know

624
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,640
I've just been in the area and we may

625
00:23:00,770 --> 00:22:58,559
have heard early from Karen or Steve

626
00:23:02,570 --> 00:23:00,780
flying or one of the other microlite

627
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:02,580
pilots in the area that have flown first

628
00:23:08,890 --> 00:23:05,460
thing and told us you know so I get to

629
00:23:11,810 --> 00:23:08,900
them and walk inside and when I see this

630
00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:11,820
expansive crop that's laid down I can't

631
00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:14,100
figure out what the geometric shape is

632
00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:16,620
and it's on undulating ground and

633
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:18,600
therefore I'm starting to go okay this

634
00:23:21,529 --> 00:23:20,100
is not easy because when people make

635
00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:21,539
them they always make them on flat

636
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,919
ground because it's so easy to then

637
00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:24,480
represent what you're seeing from above

638
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:26,520
when it's on undulating ground you have

639
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,280
to make so many compensations to make it

640
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:30,960
look like it's on a flat surface from

641
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:33,179
above then you're upping the complexity

642
00:23:36,110 --> 00:23:34,320
level

643
00:23:38,210 --> 00:23:36,120
so then if I see that there are no

644
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,220
obvious board marks where you see this

645
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:40,799
consistent crushing and scraping of the

646
00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:43,440
stems and breaking of all the heads and

647
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:45,720
the rest of it then in particularly as

648
00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:47,400
camera machine in oil seed rate the

649
00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:48,780
yellow flowers if those little yellow

650
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:51,240
petals which you're absolutely covered

651
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:52,740
in if you've walked down the tram lines

652
00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:55,559
to get to them are then perfectly intact

653
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:57,240
and there's this just sea of yellow

654
00:24:01,370 --> 00:24:00,000
intact petals that aren't damaged and

655
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:01,380
aren't scraped because the stems are

656
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,020
like celery it's quite brittle

657
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:05,520
um then then I'm starting to say okay

658
00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:07,140
there's something that something needs

659
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:09,059
to be looked at here because

660
00:24:13,130 --> 00:24:11,460
because when people walk in them they

661
00:24:15,289 --> 00:24:13,140
cause the damage that you might see

662
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:15,299
several days later and what you then

663
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:17,460
find is that where people of War they

664
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,020
tend to walk down the center of these

665
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:21,360
sort of Pathways that exist or areas

666
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:23,580
they usually walk in the same place and

667
00:24:27,289 --> 00:24:26,039
and then they kill it that dies you go

668
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,299
back three or four days later and where

669
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:29,220
they've walked it's dyed and all the all

670
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,780
the areas to the left and right of that

671
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:33,360
are still perfectly intact so how do you

672
00:24:37,549 --> 00:24:35,700
walk on the crop and kill it and and

673
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:37,559
then if it was crushed with boards and

674
00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:39,780
rope why isn't that dying as well

675
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:41,400
because that would cause more damage

676
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:44,100
than people walking on it so so that to

677
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:45,720
me is a problem

678
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:47,640
um and then and then quite often in in

679
00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:51,120
I've seen this not in um oil seed rate

680
00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:52,980
formations being barley and wheat many

681
00:24:56,029 --> 00:24:54,120
times

682
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:56,039
you'll see this beautiful geometric

683
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:57,840
shape

684
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,460
and then you'll look at the crop and

685
00:25:03,289 --> 00:25:01,559
they'll be laid say the crop is going

686
00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:03,299
away from you or it might be basket

687
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:05,220
weaved or there might be areas where

688
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:07,080
there's several layers intersecting and

689
00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:08,700
it's beautifully laying over itself in

690
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,140
this in section not not just

691
00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:13,200
haphazardous it's an Elegance of care

692
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:15,480
and attention to detail that's been

693
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:17,460
placed into the way these intersecting

694
00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:20,520
paths will have met up

695
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:22,200
um and then and then you'll see that the

696
00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:23,820
crop maybe for example is going away

697
00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:25,380
from you and then you look at the each

698
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:27,240
side where the standing crop is where it

699
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,220
just up against the sides and you might

700
00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:31,919
see two or three stalks going in the

701
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,100
opposite direction at the edges

702
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:37,919
now if you work out the square

703
00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:40,799
you know meter Ridge of inside of all of

704
00:25:47,090 --> 00:25:43,799
the shapes over 400 500 foot formation

705
00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:47,100
and you consider that somebody then we

706
00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:50,100
have to believe walked around and laid

707
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:52,620
down two or three stems in the opposite

708
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:55,080
direction of the main area when we are

709
00:25:59,390 --> 00:25:56,580
told they need to get in and get out

710
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:59,400
within four or five hours I I can't

711
00:26:04,669 --> 00:26:01,620
accept that

712
00:26:06,049 --> 00:26:04,679
simply I can't and and you know and if

713
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:06,059
you ask them to say well can you just

714
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:07,440
demonstrate that to us then all the

715
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,240
people that claim that they make them of

716
00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:11,760
course they don't so so I remain

717
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:14,580
skeptical of their claims that they can

718
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,320
do these things in the time frame that

719
00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:18,480
they can do them that's number one yeah

720
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:20,520
number two that they do it without

721
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:23,159
damaging the crop in any way

722
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,840
and number three that they pull off

723
00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:26,880
these little intricacies which would

724
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,919
take more time

725
00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:30,720
and and they don't seem to need that

726
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,220
time because they can still do it in the

727
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:34,320
dark in four or five hours so I have a

728
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:35,760
big problem with those

729
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,740
those factors

730
00:26:42,049 --> 00:26:40,080
so as that has there ever been and I'll

731
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:42,059
open this up to both of you a crop

732
00:26:47,330 --> 00:26:45,120
circle you've gone to investigate that

733
00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:47,340
you've been fooled by because it sounds

734
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:49,740
like you've both ample gave me some

735
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:52,320
wonderful examples of these are signs

736
00:26:56,450 --> 00:26:54,179
that this is man-made you know like the

737
00:26:58,010 --> 00:26:56,460
damage you know the the the board

738
00:26:59,570 --> 00:26:58,020
markings all that kind of stuff that

739
00:27:01,130 --> 00:26:59,580
makes sense has there ever been one

740
00:27:03,529 --> 00:27:01,140
you've gone to and thought this looks

741
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,539
genuine but then you've come to find has

742
00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:05,760
been man-made or are the signs that

743
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:09,720
start between genuine and man-made

744
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:13,730
um

745
00:27:17,690 --> 00:27:15,960
I mean it's healthy isn't it to be

746
00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:17,700
skeptical into it and to have to do your

747
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,820
due diligence and so so sometimes yes

748
00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:22,320
you go to crop circles and one of the

749
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:24,120
one of the big catch-outs you see for

750
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,559
the early researchers one of the people

751
00:27:28,850 --> 00:27:27,120
like Colin Andrews and people who got

752
00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:28,860
caught out was that the media seemed to

753
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,179
play this trick on them in the early

754
00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:31,919
days where they they'd have a crop

755
00:27:35,149 --> 00:27:33,480
circle commissioned and then they'd pull

756
00:27:36,649 --> 00:27:35,159
these people in like Colin Andrews get

757
00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:36,659
them in there stick a microphone up

758
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,460
their bugle and say what do you think of

759
00:27:42,049 --> 00:27:40,320
this one then and and you know and if

760
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:42,059
they declared it to be something they

761
00:27:45,169 --> 00:27:43,740
thought was interesting and then they

762
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:45,179
pulled these guys out of the cupboard

763
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,340
and said look we had this made then the

764
00:27:51,649 --> 00:27:49,200
whole baby gets thrown out with a bath

765
00:27:53,450 --> 00:27:51,659
water so we all kind of learned from

766
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,460
their bad experiences good people like

767
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:55,200
Pat Delgado and all the rest of it that

768
00:27:59,570 --> 00:27:56,940
you know there's nasty games going on

769
00:28:01,549 --> 00:27:59,580
with what the media are portraying so so

770
00:28:03,289 --> 00:28:01,559
we wouldn't be so public in saying oh

771
00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:03,299
yeah I declare this to be a genuine

772
00:28:06,409 --> 00:28:04,440
because you could get your head chopped

773
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:06,419
off but in your own way you might go oh

774
00:28:09,649 --> 00:28:07,860
I like this one this looks interesting

775
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:09,659
and then later on someone puts up some

776
00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:11,400
evidence and says well you know these

777
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:13,020
guys saw these guys hanging around and

778
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:14,520
there's this video and you go oh well

779
00:28:18,649 --> 00:28:16,799
maybe that's a doubt and so over the

780
00:28:21,710 --> 00:28:18,659
years then when you've been to you know

781
00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:21,720
800 900 000 crop circles or whatever you

782
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,640
say okay let me let's be reasonable here

783
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,799
let's lay out all those 7 000 photos

784
00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:27,840
that have crop circles that we know have

785
00:28:31,370 --> 00:28:29,159
appeared around the world on the on the

786
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,380
metaphorical table in front of us

787
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,720
and let's let's agree together what ones

788
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:35,520
we think are definitely man-made and

789
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:36,720
we'll put all those on the left hand

790
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:39,120
side then what ones we're not sure about

791
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,279
we'll stick them in the middle and what

792
00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:43,440
one's out of the 7000 we think there's

793
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:45,240
definitely no way people could have made

794
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,740
those and there's definitely a problem

795
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:49,200
with us accepting anybody's claim that

796
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,520
they popped out and did that after the

797
00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:52,559
pub and we put those over the right hand

798
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,140
side let's talk about those

799
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,840
let's stop talking about hey no is this

800
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:59,760
one genuine is that one genuine no one

801
00:29:04,909 --> 00:29:01,740
wants to have that debate

802
00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:04,919
I also I mean personally I also think

803
00:29:09,649 --> 00:29:07,500
it's much more

804
00:29:12,649 --> 00:29:09,659
um complicated than just looking at the

805
00:29:15,049 --> 00:29:12,659
physicality of the circle so for for me

806
00:29:18,409 --> 00:29:15,059
one and for Gary also but

807
00:29:20,510 --> 00:29:18,419
um I'm very interested in their

808
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:20,520
placement on the landscape I'm very

809
00:29:27,409 --> 00:29:24,480
interested in the geometry and design

810
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:27,419
um and um so I want to build up a bigger

811
00:29:33,649 --> 00:29:29,760
picture other than just what's kind of

812
00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:33,659
going on with the crops and I actually

813
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:35,340
quite difficult

814
00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:38,520
um to make a judgment and and it's like

815
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:40,020
Gary was saying

816
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,600
um you know as researchers we all kind

817
00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:44,399
of discussed might get together and

818
00:29:49,789 --> 00:29:46,679
discuss certain crop circles between us

819
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:49,799
and we might say yeah liked that one a

820
00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:51,960
lot wasn't really sure about that one

821
00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:54,179
really don't know about that one you

822
00:29:58,730 --> 00:29:57,240
know um and and that's kind of how we

823
00:30:01,610 --> 00:29:58,740
deal with it really

824
00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:01,620
um and as Gary said you know there been

825
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:03,480
lots of games kind of played with crop

826
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,240
circles over the years and you know

827
00:30:09,769 --> 00:30:08,159
people who want to make fools and

828
00:30:12,529 --> 00:30:09,779
ridicule you know I mean we talk about

829
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,539
it in in the UAP subject how ridicule is

830
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:14,159
being used

831
00:30:18,110 --> 00:30:16,620
um you know to to persecute and and

832
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,120
damage

833
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:19,440
um researchers and their reputations

834
00:30:24,169 --> 00:30:21,480
it's exactly the same in the in the crop

835
00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:24,179
circle world as well so I would I would

836
00:30:28,909 --> 00:30:26,460
want to widen the scope I'd want to

837
00:30:31,970 --> 00:30:28,919
widen the picture I'd want to look at

838
00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:31,980
how you know not not just to think about

839
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:34,380
you know the physicality of it I have to

840
00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:37,260
say say that I actually did try once to

841
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:39,480
make a crop circle when I was very young

842
00:30:42,889 --> 00:30:40,740
and

843
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:42,899
um because I wanted to know what was

844
00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:44,220
possible

845
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,020
um and so it's you know it's something

846
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,240
that that I did with a group of other

847
00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:51,360
researchers it was very hard and we

848
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:52,860
didn't it didn't make a big crop circle

849
00:30:59,810 --> 00:30:57,120
and I completely jammed the geometry up

850
00:31:01,850 --> 00:30:59,820
um and it you know it what it taught me

851
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:01,860
was that it's actually very difficult to

852
00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:04,559
do so you know even just making

853
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:07,140
something small and simple

854
00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:09,899
um so that taught me immediately you

855
00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:11,460
know to have some respect for what was

856
00:31:15,230 --> 00:31:13,500
going on in the field

857
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:15,240
um and and also because I draw them

858
00:31:19,490 --> 00:31:17,039
regularly

859
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:19,500
um that is one of the the best ways to

860
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:22,320
to kind of you know really get a handle

861
00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:25,440
on on what would be involved in if you

862
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,480
were actually to think about going into

863
00:31:32,029 --> 00:31:30,240
a field and making one of these so so

864
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:32,039
yeah so I want to look at that I also

865
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:34,020
want to listen to people's experiences

866
00:31:40,490 --> 00:31:38,820
because us you know in addition to the

867
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,500
physicality of the circles there are

868
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:42,480
people's experiences and Gary's is a

869
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:45,000
great experience I've had my own

870
00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:47,100
um you know I would consider myself a

871
00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:49,320
crop circle experiencer

872
00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:51,480
um in the sense that you know I've

873
00:31:56,450 --> 00:31:54,299
encountered a lot of high strangeness in

874
00:31:59,389 --> 00:31:56,460
and around the crop circles also some of

875
00:32:01,850 --> 00:31:59,399
which I brought home to my own home just

876
00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:01,860
like The Hitchhiker phenomenon that gets

877
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:05,580
talked about a lot so um so there's so

878
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,500
there's that whole side to it you know I

879
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:09,720
mean there are so many parallels in a

880
00:32:12,769 --> 00:32:11,460
way to what goes on with the crops in

881
00:32:15,409 --> 00:32:12,779
the crop circle world and what goes on

882
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:15,419
in the UFO world you know it's just that

883
00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:16,980
perhaps the crop circle world is a

884
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:19,860
little bit less known so the idea that

885
00:32:24,169 --> 00:32:21,200
you know we might have crop circle

886
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:24,179
experiences you know people who I've

887
00:32:27,950 --> 00:32:26,279
experienced some very strange things in

888
00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:27,960
and around the circles or feel that they

889
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:30,419
have a connection with whatever the

890
00:32:35,510 --> 00:32:33,600
phenomenon is behind the crop circles

891
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:35,520
um you know is is sometimes a new thing

892
00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:36,960
for people they don't kind of understand

893
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:38,820
that that goes on but it most certainly

894
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,760
does and that's kind of where my real

895
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,679
interest lies you know I love the

896
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:45,840
geometry of them I love drawing them I

897
00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:48,480
love teaching people how to draw them

898
00:32:55,789 --> 00:32:53,820
um but I am most involved in in the the

899
00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:55,799
the kind of the human response side to

900
00:32:59,810 --> 00:32:57,659
it I mean one of the things that I did

901
00:33:02,090 --> 00:32:59,820
very early on when I first got involved

902
00:33:03,049 --> 00:33:02,100
with the circles was actually I I went

903
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:03,059
and did

904
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,919
um some um

905
00:33:09,889 --> 00:33:07,200
um what did he call it oh ambassador to

906
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:09,899
the cosmos training with Stephen Greer

907
00:33:15,409 --> 00:33:12,480
um back in 1993 because I was very

908
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:15,419
interested in this idea of

909
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:17,880
um the phenomenon being

910
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:19,980
um interactive so that you know that

911
00:33:24,289 --> 00:33:22,200
there was a way of

912
00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:24,299
um trying to pursue some sort of contact

913
00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:26,580
or communication

914
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:28,679
um and and again in the early 90s I was

915
00:33:32,509 --> 00:33:30,899
involved in in doing my own work with

916
00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:32,519
that you're kind of taking a little bit

917
00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:34,200
of what I'd learned with the Stephen

918
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,740
Greer thing and then applying it to this

919
00:33:42,289 --> 00:33:39,600
phenomenon and you know we use

920
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:42,299
meditative techniques

921
00:33:49,009 --> 00:33:42,960
um

922
00:33:50,810 --> 00:33:49,019
we did a crop watch we we did an

923
00:33:52,909 --> 00:33:50,820
overnight watches we went out we watched

924
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:52,919
the night sky and the fields we and we

925
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:55,620
had some amazing experiences

926
00:33:59,630 --> 00:33:57,720
um so you know to me there has always

927
00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:59,640
been a deep connection and I've kind of

928
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,620
always had my foot in both camps I've

929
00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:03,840
always had my foot very firmly in the

930
00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:06,360
crop circle camp but also in the UAP

931
00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:10,020
camp or UFO Camp because I see really

932
00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:13,320
deep connections between the two

933
00:34:17,089 --> 00:34:15,060
there's a lot there from both of you

934
00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:17,099
I've not even considered an even a

935
00:34:22,129 --> 00:34:20,280
simple Gary when you mentioned a field

936
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:22,139
there aren't always level and flat

937
00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:24,000
ground I think you're you see a picture

938
00:34:28,190 --> 00:34:25,320
of a crop circle they're always

939
00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:28,200
obviously from above and you get usually

940
00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:29,720
a relatively

941
00:34:34,070 --> 00:34:32,520
cropped texture don't you of of that

942
00:34:36,409 --> 00:34:34,080
that it's not the whole shot of the

943
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:36,419
ladder so all you see is oh well it's a

944
00:34:39,409 --> 00:34:37,679
flat piece of ground and it's been done

945
00:34:40,970 --> 00:34:39,419
and I've never considered well that

946
00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:40,980
could be halfway up a hill and in this

947
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:43,020
part could be moving down and that kind

948
00:34:46,909 --> 00:34:44,940
of intricacy would again make it

949
00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:46,919
infinitely much more difficult to

950
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,599
replicate not that I'm saying for any

951
00:34:53,089 --> 00:34:50,879
Skeptics it couldn't still be done in a

952
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:53,099
way and I'm sure it's been attempted but

953
00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:55,619
it just adds to that kind of nuance in

954
00:34:59,690 --> 00:34:57,660
different levels I just want to ask you

955
00:35:02,690 --> 00:34:59,700
Karen you mentioned about experiences

956
00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:02,700
that happen within crop circles and the

957
00:35:06,829 --> 00:35:04,920
UFO topic and crop circles are

958
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:06,839
inextricably linked and always will be

959
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:09,720
and some would wonder what makes the

960
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:12,960
crop circles themselves is it orbs uh

961
00:35:18,170 --> 00:35:16,079
receive videos of that online uh used as

962
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:18,180
a some kind of craft is it something

963
00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:20,040
else and I just wonder if you can tell

964
00:35:24,109 --> 00:35:21,720
us what some of those experiences you've

965
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:24,119
had okay so

966
00:35:28,970 --> 00:35:26,460
um one of the big experiences for me was

967
00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:28,980
very very early on um and it was to do

968
00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:30,839
with the appearance of a crop circle in

969
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:32,940
leicestershire in 1993 because I didn't

970
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:35,579
always live in the south UK of the UK

971
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,140
like I could do now actually up in the

972
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:39,119
Midlands I grew up just outside of

973
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:40,740
Sheffield

974
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:41,820
um and

975
00:35:45,950 --> 00:35:44,280
um we had gotten a group together a very

976
00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:45,960
very small group of seven others who

977
00:35:50,270 --> 00:35:47,820
were really interested in this idea of

978
00:35:51,950 --> 00:35:50,280
interaction and

979
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:51,960
um we decided that we were going to try

980
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:53,760
several things we decided we were going

981
00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:55,320
to try some

982
00:35:59,329 --> 00:35:57,540
um some Consciousness work so

983
00:36:02,270 --> 00:35:59,339
um that involved several different types

984
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:02,280
of meditation we had an um a meditation

985
00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:04,800
one evening where we would

986
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:07,140
um visualize walking into a field and

987
00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:09,180
then what would we see and then drawing

988
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:11,220
it afterwards

989
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:13,560
um we would also you know use meditation

990
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,680
to kind of reach out just like in in a

991
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:18,960
way in the way that the early sea City

992
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,060
people did

993
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:23,280
um using consciousness is a way of

994
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:25,680
connecting to whatever else was going on

995
00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:27,480
around this

996
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,140
um and that summer we had also done a

997
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,359
crop watch at a place

998
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:35,520
um again in in leicestershire

999
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:37,500
um where there had been circles that had

1000
00:36:41,089 --> 00:36:39,720
appeared there a lot over the years and

1001
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:41,099
in fact the field was at a place called

1002
00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:42,359
husband's Bosworth and the field

1003
00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:43,980
actually was known as Old Faithful

1004
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:46,020
because there would be a crop circle of

1005
00:36:52,010 --> 00:36:48,660
one kind or another each year

1006
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,020
um and we had gone that year to do

1007
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,720
um a crop watch that summer

1008
00:36:58,609 --> 00:36:56,400
um and we found that actually the crop

1009
00:37:00,530 --> 00:36:58,619
had failed in the field and it was It

1010
00:37:03,050 --> 00:37:00,540
was kind of really sad but we decided we

1011
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:03,060
would still go there because we had been

1012
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:06,000
using that location during our

1013
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:07,680
Consciousness work

1014
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:10,020
when we went there on the evening we we

1015
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:12,660
had this incredible UFO sighting

1016
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:15,720
um and um there were two lights in the

1017
00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:17,460
sky it was I can't remember whether it

1018
00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:19,380
was a full moon or just coming up to a

1019
00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:20,820
Full Moon

1020
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:23,460
um there would do lights a larger light

1021
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:25,440
and then a small one following behind

1022
00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:27,900
but kind of this the the smaller one

1023
00:37:31,609 --> 00:37:30,540
would kind of be moving around a little

1024
00:37:33,470 --> 00:37:31,619
bit

1025
00:37:36,349 --> 00:37:33,480
um but they seemed to be moving to also

1026
00:37:38,329 --> 00:37:36,359
seem to be moving in unison and we were

1027
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,339
we sat we were all watching this we were

1028
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:40,079
sat on the ground we were watching it

1029
00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:42,060
went into the aura of the Moon because

1030
00:37:46,609 --> 00:37:43,859
it was a night

1031
00:37:48,829 --> 00:37:46,619
um that there was no Cloud so there was

1032
00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:48,839
this big Aura of light around the moon

1033
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:50,579
and it just didn't come out the other

1034
00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:54,359
side and we were all pretty wild by that

1035
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:55,980
um it so it was very high up whatever

1036
00:38:00,349 --> 00:37:58,560
whatever it was

1037
00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,359
um and the the bigger light of the two

1038
00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:03,000
was was quite big it was it was many

1039
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,740
times bigger than a star whereas

1040
00:38:08,569 --> 00:38:06,480
probably the one that was moving behind

1041
00:38:11,210 --> 00:38:08,579
you would say that it it would perhaps

1042
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:11,220
look the size of maybe like Venus does

1043
00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:15,780
when it comes up in in in the night sky

1044
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:18,300
but what was most amazing about that was

1045
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,920
that we were not the only ones that had

1046
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:21,359
seen it in fact there were two other

1047
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:23,400
groups one of which I was involved with

1048
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:25,800
one down in Sussex and also one in

1049
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:28,800
Wiltshire and the group in Wiltshire

1050
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:30,420
um actually one of those group members

1051
00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:33,060
was was Steve my husband who I had not

1052
00:38:38,030 --> 00:38:35,640
yet met at this point so

1053
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:38,040
um and they also described seeing

1054
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:40,320
exactly the same thing from all the

1055
00:38:45,230 --> 00:38:42,660
three locations all the way sort of down

1056
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:45,240
the country which was really fascinating

1057
00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:47,400
and because we were all kind of engaged

1058
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,740
in the same kind of work that was even

1059
00:38:52,849 --> 00:38:51,599
more fascinating

1060
00:38:55,609 --> 00:38:52,859
so

1061
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,619
a couple of weeks go by and I get a

1062
00:39:01,130 --> 00:38:58,320
phone call from one of my colleagues a

1063
00:39:02,990 --> 00:39:01,140
guy called Mark and he told me that

1064
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:03,000
there had been a report of a huge crop

1065
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:04,079
circle

1066
00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:05,040
um

1067
00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:07,020
at a place called Charlie Knoll which is

1068
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:10,920
actually a farm just off of the M1 I

1069
00:39:15,290 --> 00:39:13,140
think about I think it's Junction 23A

1070
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:15,300
something like that and I thought he was

1071
00:39:19,370 --> 00:39:17,220
having me on I thought because he was a

1072
00:39:21,290 --> 00:39:19,380
bit of a joker you know and

1073
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:21,300
um we didn't get big crop circles in

1074
00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:23,460
that part of the country at that time we

1075
00:39:27,170 --> 00:39:24,660
kind of had

1076
00:39:29,089 --> 00:39:27,180
um you know some and we had some really

1077
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:29,099
nice ones but they tended to be sort of

1078
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,339
circles circles with rings maybe

1079
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:34,260
um lines and boxes because it was still

1080
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:37,140
very early in the in the 90s

1081
00:39:41,329 --> 00:39:39,960
um and I I kind of caught this Bluff and

1082
00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:41,339
I said okay we'll come around pick me up

1083
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:43,320
we'll go and have a look you know

1084
00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:46,500
so we um so off we went we went down the

1085
00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:49,500
down the motorway and we turned the car

1086
00:39:53,870 --> 00:39:51,420
around we came back up and there it was

1087
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:53,880
and there was this huge

1088
00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:55,740
um formation in the field it was like a

1089
00:40:01,970 --> 00:39:58,980
big huge crucifix formation

1090
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:01,980
um so it had a long line and then a

1091
00:40:08,510 --> 00:40:04,740
shorter one just like a crucifix but

1092
00:40:10,730 --> 00:40:08,520
then on each of the the the three points

1093
00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:10,740
at the top there were I think there was

1094
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,780
a circle there was a ringed Circle one

1095
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,640
of them had a circle with a ratchet

1096
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:16,560
around it

1097
00:40:20,210 --> 00:40:18,180
was

1098
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,220
um down the body of the the main line

1099
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:21,839
and then finally at the end there was a

1100
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:23,579
circle with kind of little key on the

1101
00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:24,780
end of it

1102
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:26,700
um and it must have been

1103
00:40:31,550 --> 00:40:29,880
300 350 feet in length it was absolutely

1104
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:31,560
huge

1105
00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:34,200
um but what we began to we we went to

1106
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:35,880
see the farmer's wife because we wanted

1107
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:38,040
to go and have a look she was really

1108
00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:39,119
great

1109
00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:41,940
um she told us that she normally takes

1110
00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:44,220
her dogs out and the field is actually

1111
00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:46,440
really near The Farmhouse but they'd

1112
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:48,839
heard nothing that night or seen nothing

1113
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:50,940
but when she let the dogs out in the

1114
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:52,079
morning they wouldn't go in the field

1115
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:54,060
and she said normally she would have to

1116
00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:55,560
call them out you know they'd run down

1117
00:40:59,390 --> 00:40:57,300
the track to lines and she would have to

1118
00:41:02,089 --> 00:40:59,400
call them back they wouldn't go anywhere

1119
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:02,099
near the field and they they just sat

1120
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:04,200
side of the field they wouldn't you know

1121
00:41:07,609 --> 00:41:06,180
sort of have anything to and she could

1122
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,619
see it from there

1123
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,359
and as she walked in the dogs wouldn't

1124
00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:11,280
come in the field with her you know she

1125
00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:13,320
tried to sort of you know get them to

1126
00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:14,520
come in the field they were having none

1127
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:15,900
of it

1128
00:41:20,569 --> 00:41:18,540
um but what we began to realize Andy was

1129
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:20,579
when we talked to her that this crop

1130
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,020
circle had actually been there a few

1131
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:25,200
days and and the circle had happened on

1132
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,900
the 7th of July which was the seventh

1133
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:29,520
day of the seventh month there'd been

1134
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:32,640
seven members of our group

1135
00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:34,380
um and when we looked at where this crop

1136
00:41:39,170 --> 00:41:37,260
circle was on a map it was bang in the

1137
00:41:42,010 --> 00:41:39,180
middle of the two sites where we had

1138
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:42,020
done our meditation work so

1139
00:41:46,730 --> 00:41:44,520
synchronicities here were beginning to

1140
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:46,740
sort of pile up and pile up and pile up

1141
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:48,540
and I

1142
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:52,980
fascinating you know that here was

1143
00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:55,380
something that seemed like it was some

1144
00:41:59,089 --> 00:41:57,780
kind of response to what we had been

1145
00:42:02,150 --> 00:41:59,099
doing

1146
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:02,160
um and um and I I there were many other

1147
00:42:07,790 --> 00:42:04,740
researchers done I I had a friend who

1148
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:07,800
was a surveyor and he brought his

1149
00:42:11,329 --> 00:42:10,140
theodolite into the field and we took

1150
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:11,339
measurements because I wanted an

1151
00:42:16,670 --> 00:42:13,500
accurate survey

1152
00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:16,680
um and when we got when we got those

1153
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,020
um numbers home we couldn't convert them

1154
00:42:23,930 --> 00:42:21,839
they were just absolute rubbish for I

1155
00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:23,940
just don't understand how that happened

1156
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:26,579
but there it was all the all the survey

1157
00:42:31,069 --> 00:42:27,780
measurements that we take with the

1158
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:31,079
theodorite that day were useless

1159
00:42:33,170 --> 00:42:32,400
um and

1160
00:42:35,089 --> 00:42:33,180
um

1161
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:35,099
Wheels a friend of mine took a picture

1162
00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:36,480
of

1163
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:39,060
um a UFO from that field as well so that

1164
00:42:42,770 --> 00:42:40,920
was interesting too

1165
00:42:46,609 --> 00:42:42,780
um and eventually I wrote it up into a

1166
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,619
into a small book but it was just the

1167
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:48,960
level of

1168
00:42:54,290 --> 00:42:51,119
um synchronicity kind of going on with

1169
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:54,300
that just kind of showed that there was

1170
00:42:59,809 --> 00:42:56,040
something going on here that was really

1171
00:43:01,609 --> 00:42:59,819
worthy of pursuit and you know of it you

1172
00:43:03,770 --> 00:43:01,619
know of interest and you know whether

1173
00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:03,780
you want to think of it on the terms of

1174
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:06,420
you know being connected through the

1175
00:43:10,730 --> 00:43:08,220
collective unconscious say a jungian

1176
00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:10,740
point of view or

1177
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,780
um even if you want to go down the route

1178
00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:15,000
of site phenomena

1179
00:43:18,589 --> 00:43:16,740
um you know those are both routes that

1180
00:43:20,930 --> 00:43:18,599
you can take that will shed a little bit

1181
00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:20,940
of light on this but I was I mean we

1182
00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:22,680
were not the only ones to do it there

1183
00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:25,319
was also a group in Sussex that managed

1184
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,300
to have very very similar results to

1185
00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:29,520
their work and they're also been dotted

1186
00:43:35,329 --> 00:43:32,940
stories as well of lots of people who

1187
00:43:37,790 --> 00:43:35,339
have gone you know to to meditate or

1188
00:43:40,970 --> 00:43:37,800
concentrate or ask for a certain shape

1189
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,980
to be made and lo and behold it it will

1190
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:43,200
it hit this happen not every time

1191
00:43:49,309 --> 00:43:46,440
obviously but you know me many many

1192
00:43:53,329 --> 00:43:49,319
times enough for it to be I think

1193
00:43:55,609 --> 00:43:53,339
significant and and again worthy of

1194
00:43:57,710 --> 00:43:55,619
um you know taking a deeper look at

1195
00:44:00,609 --> 00:43:57,720
what's going on

1196
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:00,619
and do you mind just sharing Karen those

1197
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,060
hitchhiker-esque experiences what sort

1198
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,040
of phenomenon has followed you back so

1199
00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:06,720
well yeah so I'll describe one that

1200
00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:08,520
happened to me so during that period of

1201
00:44:12,829 --> 00:44:10,440
time when we were doing the the really

1202
00:44:16,730 --> 00:44:12,839
intensive work

1203
00:44:18,589 --> 00:44:16,740
um in 1993. I was at home it was in in

1204
00:44:20,930 --> 00:44:18,599
the summer months I think it must have

1205
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:20,940
been late June something like that I was

1206
00:44:25,970 --> 00:44:23,400
in my kitchen at home

1207
00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:25,980
um me and my husband had got a um friend

1208
00:44:29,089 --> 00:44:28,020
staying with us he was in the bath in

1209
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,099
the bathroom which was on the ground

1210
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,960
floor next door to where I was in the

1211
00:44:33,470 --> 00:44:31,680
kitchen

1212
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:33,480
and I was just doing the washing up you

1213
00:44:36,650 --> 00:44:34,560
know as you do

1214
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:36,660
and all of a sudden I started to hear

1215
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,359
this sound and I didn't at first I

1216
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:41,280
thought it was a distant Car Alarm it

1217
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,560
was like a kind of electronic

1218
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:46,400
kind of trilling kind of

1219
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:50,819
multi-toned kind of thing and and as I I

1220
00:44:54,890 --> 00:44:52,140
just kind of you know it was there in

1221
00:44:56,329 --> 00:44:54,900
the background and and this

1222
00:44:57,890 --> 00:44:56,339
um noise started to get louder and

1223
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:57,900
louder and louder

1224
00:45:03,530 --> 00:45:00,240
I thought oh hell what's that you know

1225
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,540
and so I thought I would walk out the

1226
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:05,040
back door and see if I could see

1227
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:06,000
anything

1228
00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:06,720
um

1229
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:08,760
anyway when I walked through the back

1230
00:45:12,530 --> 00:45:10,859
door what I suddenly realized was that

1231
00:45:14,750 --> 00:45:12,540
the sound wasn't coming from outside but

1232
00:45:16,849 --> 00:45:14,760
actually it was in the house

1233
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:16,859
so I walked back into the house and I

1234
00:45:21,890 --> 00:45:19,200
shout to my friend can you hear that

1235
00:45:23,569 --> 00:45:21,900
noise and he shouted back yeah I can

1236
00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:23,579
what what is it you know and I say I

1237
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:25,619
don't know what it is and all the time

1238
00:45:30,170 --> 00:45:27,420
the sound is getting louder and louder

1239
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,180
and I was it would it just a point where

1240
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:32,280
actually I was just starting to feel a

1241
00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:33,839
little bit frightened

1242
00:45:38,809 --> 00:45:36,599
and then the noise just stopped just

1243
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:38,819
like that just stopped and it was you

1244
00:45:43,370 --> 00:45:40,680
know the the silence was deafening if

1245
00:45:44,510 --> 00:45:43,380
you like you know afterwards but to me

1246
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:44,520
hey

1247
00:45:49,130 --> 00:45:47,160
it was something that was connected with

1248
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:49,140
with what we were doing and and actually

1249
00:45:53,150 --> 00:45:50,640
hearing

1250
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,160
um this kind of electronic sound in crop

1251
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:55,500
circles is is not something that's

1252
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:57,359
unheard of it has actually been reported

1253
00:46:02,390 --> 00:45:59,400
but to have it in my home

1254
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,400
was to me it was kind of part and parcel

1255
00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:04,560
of what was going on to me it was kind

1256
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:05,940
of a form of

1257
00:46:09,410 --> 00:46:07,440
Direct

1258
00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:09,420
contact if you like if you want to use

1259
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:11,400
that word

1260
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:13,500
no thanks and Gary just so you know

1261
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:15,119
you're on mute Gary if you click the

1262
00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:16,680
little microphone it'll take you off of

1263
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,400
me

1264
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:18,960
um but I just wanted to ask if you had

1265
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:21,180
any of the similar types of experiences

1266
00:46:25,309 --> 00:46:23,640
where you've had that high strangeness

1267
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:25,319
you said you have that feeling when

1268
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,880
you've gone into a crop circle I imagine

1269
00:46:31,069 --> 00:46:29,040
and I'm sure I've seen this in various

1270
00:46:33,710 --> 00:46:31,079
documentaries as an energy associated

1271
00:46:34,910 --> 00:46:33,720
with them you just get that feeling in a

1272
00:46:37,069 --> 00:46:34,920
place where something has happened

1273
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:37,079
there's a connection to something that

1274
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:39,060
any any of that that's followed you hold

1275
00:46:42,170 --> 00:46:40,140
me yourself

1276
00:46:44,750 --> 00:46:42,180
yeah I mean

1277
00:46:47,150 --> 00:46:44,760
um same stuff really and you hear a lot

1278
00:46:49,130 --> 00:46:47,160
of this anecdotally synchronicities wild

1279
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:49,140
synchronicities you just think what are

1280
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,599
the chances of that happening that you

1281
00:46:55,130 --> 00:46:53,280
know various events when you look back

1282
00:46:57,950 --> 00:46:55,140
at what you you know brought certain

1283
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,960
events about you just you just stagger

1284
00:47:01,609 --> 00:46:59,520
at some of those and there's so many

1285
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:01,619
stories from people who've been around

1286
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:03,480
the crop circles they've got these sorts

1287
00:47:07,970 --> 00:47:05,700
of stories to tell

1288
00:47:10,609 --> 00:47:07,980
um and yeah like Karen said you know

1289
00:47:12,170 --> 00:47:10,619
seeing orbs of light you know early on

1290
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:12,180
in when I first started to interact with

1291
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:13,680
the cop Circle was my son and I and

1292
00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:15,660
another friend we've just been to the

1293
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:17,460
crop circles we were camping over in

1294
00:47:23,329 --> 00:47:20,880
Shepton a rainbow festival and we went

1295
00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:23,339
back to their them in the evening just

1296
00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:25,800
before it got dark actually my son and I

1297
00:47:30,050 --> 00:47:27,960
saw this we just we just had this

1298
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,060
instinct to look up into the sky and

1299
00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:32,160
there was this kind of craft and it

1300
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,200
seemed to shoot out this orange light in

1301
00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:36,240
front of it and then ride this light off

1302
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,280
into wherever it went

1303
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:40,319
and then it got dark and we were we were

1304
00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:41,700
standing outside our tent this is

1305
00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:44,040
probably the most powerful sort of

1306
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,020
experience you know around that kind of

1307
00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:48,240
UFO sort of thing I've ever had really

1308
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:50,280
was all three of us just sort of looked

1309
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:51,839
up in the sky I'm very low in the sky

1310
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:54,240
just above the trees a bit of a very

1311
00:47:59,690 --> 00:47:56,940
bright light pulsating that was moving

1312
00:48:01,250 --> 00:47:59,700
quite slowly across in front of us and

1313
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:01,260
we all just standing there with our Jaws

1314
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:03,359
dropping as we were realizing well what

1315
00:48:07,130 --> 00:48:05,040
is this this is not normal

1316
00:48:09,290 --> 00:48:07,140
but then what got even more weird was

1317
00:48:11,569 --> 00:48:09,300
that all three of us had this instinct

1318
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:11,579
to look over our shoulders and as we did

1319
00:48:17,329 --> 00:48:15,000
we saw this light in the distance race

1320
00:48:18,650 --> 00:48:17,339
forward an enormous rates obviously as

1321
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:18,660
it was coming off over our left

1322
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,300
shoulders and as our as our view sort of

1323
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:23,280
got here and periphery we could start to

1324
00:48:28,010 --> 00:48:24,780
see this big one that was above the

1325
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:28,020
trees it took off and they crossed in

1326
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,480
the sky away in the distance and I'll

1327
00:48:34,370 --> 00:48:31,920
never forget my friend Mark who was down

1328
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:34,380
there just went I believe now you know

1329
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:36,540
that's the thing that sticks with my

1330
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,960
memory when when when we saw this and

1331
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:42,960
and so yeah I I mean I don't know I

1332
00:48:46,130 --> 00:48:44,220
don't know if you get you get involved

1333
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:46,140
in this thing but you like what I can

1334
00:48:52,849 --> 00:48:51,050
Michael and I I work with Michael

1335
00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:52,859
Littman Karen knows very well we always

1336
00:48:58,910 --> 00:48:56,339
we always sort of had this feeling

1337
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:58,920
that that you were kind of being guided

1338
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:00,960
in certain ways the more you the more

1339
00:49:05,089 --> 00:49:03,300
you dig deeper into the phenomenon of

1340
00:49:06,589 --> 00:49:05,099
the crop circles and try to discover the

1341
00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:06,599
mysteries of that

1342
00:49:10,670 --> 00:49:08,700
as Andy Thomas another researcher put it

1343
00:49:13,309 --> 00:49:10,680
you you find that you're digging deeper

1344
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:13,319
into your own soul and their own Mystery

1345
00:49:17,809 --> 00:49:15,540
of your own Consciousness because you're

1346
00:49:19,849 --> 00:49:17,819
constantly questioning yourself

1347
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:19,859
about some of the things that go on

1348
00:49:23,390 --> 00:49:21,240
around you when you when you interact

1349
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:23,400
with these things and other people too

1350
00:49:26,750 --> 00:49:24,900
and so

1351
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:26,760
we used to say that we felt like we were

1352
00:49:30,829 --> 00:49:29,220
being kind of you know nudged left and

1353
00:49:32,569 --> 00:49:30,839
right as we went along our journey by

1354
00:49:34,849 --> 00:49:32,579
this kind of wise teacher a bit like

1355
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,859
people Jung described Yi Ching that

1356
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:36,240
after a while you interact with itching

1357
00:49:40,609 --> 00:49:37,500
and then suddenly you feel like you're

1358
00:49:43,970 --> 00:49:40,619
being kind of nudged Along by this very

1359
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:43,980
wise person you know and I can say to

1360
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:45,900
you you know the things that the areas

1361
00:49:50,690 --> 00:49:47,520
that has caused me to research about

1362
00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:50,700
life and the cosmos and synchronicity

1363
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,500
and all the various topics even the

1364
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:54,720
Wilshire landscape itself and ancient

1365
00:49:58,849 --> 00:49:56,160
monuments because they've been all

1366
00:50:01,309 --> 00:49:58,859
that's around there has enriched my life

1367
00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:01,319
over the last 25 years that really the

1368
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:03,300
kind of the argument about you know who

1369
00:50:08,030 --> 00:50:06,240
makes the crop circles to me is sort of

1370
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:08,040
insignificant because I don't think I

1371
00:50:11,569 --> 00:50:09,480
could have ever signed up to any

1372
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,579
University degree that would have given

1373
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:13,440
me the experiences

1374
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,420
which I've you know I've passed with my

1375
00:50:18,410 --> 00:50:17,040
children you know as well as we've gone

1376
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:18,420
along I was teaching them to square the

1377
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:20,280
circle When Alan Brown discovered some

1378
00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:21,780
of the Mysteries we found in square in

1379
00:50:25,550 --> 00:50:23,880
the circle and some of these big

1380
00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:25,560
solutions to geometric puzzles it's

1381
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,420
another subject but we've they've been

1382
00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:29,280
discovered hidden within crop circles

1383
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:31,140
and I was able to teach my kids this

1384
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:32,460
stuff when they were eight you know

1385
00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:34,920
Simple Solutions to geometric puzzles

1386
00:50:38,450 --> 00:50:37,020
that had Pythagoras and Plato and all

1387
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:38,460
these people

1388
00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:40,319
scratching their heads to try and find

1389
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,540
solutions to we've discovered really

1390
00:50:46,970 --> 00:50:44,400
really accurate Solutions inside crop

1391
00:50:48,890 --> 00:50:46,980
circles I say we I'm using the world we

1392
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:48,900
as researchers but it was very brilliant

1393
00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:51,240
people like Alan Brown and John Martino

1394
00:50:54,109 --> 00:50:52,619
and other people and Michael Glickman

1395
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:54,119
discovered them and I just wrote on the

1396
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:55,920
back of that in some ways but

1397
00:51:00,589 --> 00:50:58,319
yeah it's just I could go on but you

1398
00:51:02,030 --> 00:51:00,599
know it's it's a big subject and when

1399
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,040
you interact with it that you realize

1400
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:04,319
after a while there's more to it

1401
00:51:08,809 --> 00:51:06,420
let me ask and this goes to both of you

1402
00:51:11,390 --> 00:51:08,819
that the crop circle phenomenon

1403
00:51:12,589 --> 00:51:11,400
seems to be inextricably attached again

1404
00:51:14,990 --> 00:51:12,599
I've used the word an extra company

1405
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,000
twice now I hate that so too many

1406
00:51:20,089 --> 00:51:18,000
um it's almost like a 1990s phenomenon

1407
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,099
and when I put out listener questions a

1408
00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:22,319
few people very respectfully said our

1409
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,180
crop circle is still a thing to which

1410
00:51:27,470 --> 00:51:25,680
they are if you do any Googling or

1411
00:51:29,930 --> 00:51:27,480
online and searching they do happen we

1412
00:51:31,549 --> 00:51:29,940
know yours Gary was 2007 but they do

1413
00:51:33,410 --> 00:51:31,559
come up quite regular and if you've got

1414
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:33,420
an eye on the subject you tend to see

1415
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,980
various different news sites still

1416
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,200
report on them and you're both nodding

1417
00:51:41,569 --> 00:51:38,880
so I assume that's something you both

1418
00:51:43,549 --> 00:51:41,579
are aware of and why do you think that

1419
00:51:46,670 --> 00:51:43,559
is why does it seem that crop circles

1420
00:51:50,089 --> 00:51:46,680
were a 1990s phenomenon

1421
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,099
media I'd agree with that totally yeah

1422
00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:52,319
because essentially I think once the

1423
00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:54,540
media had made made its mind up that

1424
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:57,420
that you know that this wasn't a thing

1425
00:52:00,170 --> 00:51:58,680
anymore

1426
00:52:02,450 --> 00:52:00,180
um that they they essentially really

1427
00:52:04,130 --> 00:52:02,460
stopped reporting on it

1428
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,140
um you know and I

1429
00:52:08,089 --> 00:52:06,000
and again you know it's

1430
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:08,099
as you say you know you you've only got

1431
00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:09,300
to sort of

1432
00:52:13,549 --> 00:52:11,640
um look at Gary's YouTube

1433
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,559
um page or

1434
00:52:18,290 --> 00:52:15,839
um my website you know to to see that

1435
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:18,300
crop circles still happen every year and

1436
00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:21,240
they have continued to happen every year

1437
00:52:24,890 --> 00:52:22,380
um you know

1438
00:52:27,230 --> 00:52:24,900
um since the early 90s and in fact you

1439
00:52:30,530 --> 00:52:27,240
know there are historical cases that

1440
00:52:32,089 --> 00:52:30,540
that go you know way back so you know

1441
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:32,099
this has been with us a long time and

1442
00:52:37,790 --> 00:52:34,440
it's still with us there have been a few

1443
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,800
Less in recent years it has to be said

1444
00:52:41,690 --> 00:52:40,079
um but you know I think probably the

1445
00:52:43,730 --> 00:52:41,700
height of

1446
00:52:47,210 --> 00:52:43,740
um crop circles appearing in the UK in

1447
00:52:50,270 --> 00:52:47,220
particular would be be around 2009 2010

1448
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,280
something like that maybe 2012 after

1449
00:52:54,650 --> 00:52:51,839
which then

1450
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:54,660
um we've seen a decline in numbers but

1451
00:52:58,609 --> 00:52:56,339
they're no less the ones that do appear

1452
00:53:00,770 --> 00:52:58,619
in no less interesting

1453
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:00,780
um and no less amazing really than than

1454
00:53:05,150 --> 00:53:02,220
some of the ones that were appearing

1455
00:53:06,829 --> 00:53:05,160
then so yep I just I just think it's

1456
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:06,839
because people don't see them in the

1457
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,940
mainstream media I I think that's it's

1458
00:53:12,530 --> 00:53:10,800
as simple as that really

1459
00:53:13,970 --> 00:53:12,540
um you know and that's sad and it means

1460
00:53:16,250 --> 00:53:13,980
you have to work a little bit harder to

1461
00:53:19,069 --> 00:53:16,260
kind of find out what's going on but you

1462
00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:19,079
know if if you're on social media or you

1463
00:53:22,970 --> 00:53:20,520
know any of that good stuff it's it's

1464
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:22,980
pretty easy to find

1465
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,200
well you mentioned the mainstream media

1466
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:27,200
I think maybe one of the last big

1467
00:53:31,309 --> 00:53:29,220
juggernauts to pick up on the crop

1468
00:53:34,430 --> 00:53:31,319
circle phenomenon was the movie Signs

1469
00:53:36,049 --> 00:53:34,440
which is now you know aging as the years

1470
00:53:38,210 --> 00:53:36,059
go by but it's a favorite of mine and

1471
00:53:40,250 --> 00:53:38,220
I've said many times at a slight aside

1472
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:40,260
one of my most favorite pieces of

1473
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:43,079
footage of what real might look like is

1474
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,880
in the movie Signs when they're they're

1475
00:53:49,790 --> 00:53:47,280
filming a birthday party in Brazil the

1476
00:53:51,530 --> 00:53:49,800
invasion's happening and the the being

1477
00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:51,540
just moves across the camera at the end

1478
00:53:56,270 --> 00:53:53,579
of the alley and that always struck me

1479
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,280
as a oh wow because it looks so raw and

1480
00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:57,839
gritty and that that's always been with

1481
00:54:01,790 --> 00:54:00,359
me but crop circles played a big part in

1482
00:54:04,809 --> 00:54:01,800
the movie Signs it's on the front cover

1483
00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:04,819
it's all about signs and in the movie

1484
00:54:10,849 --> 00:54:08,460
The beings attacking Earth are using

1485
00:54:13,790 --> 00:54:10,859
them as a way to mobilize and basically

1486
00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:13,800
navigate the planet so let me get on to

1487
00:54:17,329 --> 00:54:15,300
the conversation with both of you again

1488
00:54:20,210 --> 00:54:17,339
we'll come to you first what do you

1489
00:54:22,730 --> 00:54:20,220
think personally crop circles are for do

1490
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:22,740
you even have a hypothesis or is there a

1491
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:31,309
um Gary and I's mutual friend Michael

1492
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:33,420
Glickman he always used to say that crop

1493
00:54:37,790 --> 00:54:36,000
circles were like toys on the nursery

1494
00:54:40,250 --> 00:54:37,800
floor and they were put there just to

1495
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:40,260
see what we would make of them and and I

1496
00:54:44,809 --> 00:54:42,240
kind of like that idea I also like the

1497
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:44,819
way that Gary Nolan once said that that

1498
00:54:49,609 --> 00:54:46,559
the UAP stuff was a bit of an

1499
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,619
intelligence test and you know if if you

1500
00:54:52,849 --> 00:54:51,119
didn't pay attention then you'd failed

1501
00:54:55,309 --> 00:54:52,859
the test and I think there's a kind of a

1502
00:54:57,049 --> 00:54:55,319
little bit of that in this too

1503
00:54:59,809 --> 00:54:57,059
um I think

1504
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,819
I think if I think anything about this I

1505
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:01,200
think it's that

1506
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:05,280
whatever is going on it takes people on

1507
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:07,200
this journey of Discovery I think just

1508
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:09,839
like the UFO phenomenon does you know

1509
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,359
that it that it opens you up to all

1510
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:14,640
kinds of new ideas and you are forever

1511
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,500
changed by it

1512
00:55:20,089 --> 00:55:18,240
um and I you know so I think that's

1513
00:55:21,890 --> 00:55:20,099
that's kind of what happens with with

1514
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:21,900
the crop circles you kind of go through

1515
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,680
this kind of process over your

1516
00:55:29,690 --> 00:55:27,599
involvement with it and at every Point

1517
00:55:31,970 --> 00:55:29,700
there's a get out you know I mean that's

1518
00:55:34,130 --> 00:55:31,980
to me that's kind of how I think about

1519
00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:34,140
the whole hoaxing thing I think it's a

1520
00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:36,180
great get out if if things are getting

1521
00:55:42,109 --> 00:55:39,000
too much tuned you need to get out well

1522
00:55:43,790 --> 00:55:42,119
you know off you go you know um but I

1523
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:43,800
think that

1524
00:55:47,569 --> 00:55:45,660
um you know staying with it you you

1525
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,579
learn so many things like you know I I

1526
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,500
always say that crop circles where their

1527
00:55:53,329 --> 00:55:51,599
spirituality on their sleep because I I

1528
00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:53,339
think that

1529
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,900
um you know which makes me interested in

1530
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:57,359
the work of people like Jeffrey

1531
00:56:02,990 --> 00:56:00,839
and Diana pasulka you know so

1532
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:03,000
um I I think there is almost a spiritual

1533
00:56:06,530 --> 00:56:04,559
side to this

1534
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:06,540
um you know and again I think that's in

1535
00:56:12,049 --> 00:56:09,059
you know involved in getting people

1536
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:12,059
human beings to realize that you know we

1537
00:56:17,569 --> 00:56:15,000
live in a bigger wider reality than we

1538
00:56:20,809 --> 00:56:17,579
currently will admit and that that

1539
00:56:22,609 --> 00:56:20,819
reality is probably popular populated by

1540
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:22,619
many many different types of

1541
00:56:27,410 --> 00:56:24,960
intelligences

1542
00:56:29,270 --> 00:56:27,420
um and you know maybe you know what what

1543
00:56:31,790 --> 00:56:29,280
is going on with the crop circles is not

1544
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:31,800
related to some some of the stuff going

1545
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,140
on with UFOs maybe it is we just don't

1546
00:56:39,770 --> 00:56:36,660
know enough about it yet but I certainly

1547
00:56:41,450 --> 00:56:39,780
think that you know this is is kind of

1548
00:56:44,270 --> 00:56:41,460
part of that I mean you know very

1549
00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:44,280
quickly the thing that really makes me

1550
00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:46,800
fascinated about the geometry of them is

1551
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,140
that geometry itself is a universal

1552
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,079
language so you know a circle is a

1553
00:56:55,730 --> 00:56:54,000
circle is a circle wherever you are you

1554
00:56:57,650 --> 00:56:55,740
know whether it's being as Mars or Earth

1555
00:56:59,809 --> 00:56:57,660
you know so

1556
00:57:01,730 --> 00:56:59,819
um and and also one of the things that

1557
00:57:03,950 --> 00:57:01,740
you very very quickly learn

1558
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:03,960
um with all of this is that

1559
00:57:09,710 --> 00:57:06,180
um these geometries and numbers in

1560
00:57:11,870 --> 00:57:09,720
particular in particular are not just

1561
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:11,880
um quantities they also have qualities

1562
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:15,599
and those qualities are not just

1563
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:16,800
um from

1564
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:18,240
um human tradition they're actually

1565
00:57:22,970 --> 00:57:20,160
borne out by the way that numbers

1566
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,980
interact together geometrically

1567
00:57:26,990 --> 00:57:24,720
so

1568
00:57:29,329 --> 00:57:27,000
um foreign for instance if you look at

1569
00:57:31,309 --> 00:57:29,339
the Circle it's it's about the number

1570
00:57:34,130 --> 00:57:31,319
one because it's there it is it's one

1571
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:34,140
thing it's also about Unity

1572
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:35,280
um it's about

1573
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,500
all that is it's one of the reasons why

1574
00:57:42,589 --> 00:57:39,599
the circle has been used as a symbol for

1575
00:57:44,809 --> 00:57:42,599
God for many years for instance you know

1576
00:57:47,210 --> 00:57:44,819
the the Ancients would use the circle as

1577
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:47,220
a sign for God or the song or whatever

1578
00:57:53,890 --> 00:57:51,359
but but equally when you you know you

1579
00:57:56,690 --> 00:57:53,900
look at say the square which is fourfold

1580
00:57:59,150 --> 00:57:56,700
that's to do with Mata and the way that

1581
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,160
matter is put together so when you have

1582
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:01,200
a coming together of the circle and

1583
00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:04,319
square like um Gary was talking about

1584
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:06,420
it's an ancient conundrum this idea of

1585
00:58:10,849 --> 00:58:08,160
how do you square a circle

1586
00:58:13,390 --> 00:58:10,859
because when you draw a circle there's

1587
00:58:16,010 --> 00:58:13,400
no way to accurately

1588
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:16,020
calculate the perimeter or circumference

1589
00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:18,359
of a circle it's why we taught Pi at

1590
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,520
school we have to

1591
00:58:25,549 --> 00:58:23,280
um we have to approximate the the

1592
00:58:27,230 --> 00:58:25,559
perimeter of a circle

1593
00:58:29,690 --> 00:58:27,240
but with a square it's not we can

1594
00:58:31,490 --> 00:58:29,700
measure it it's it's a knowable thing so

1595
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,500
when you bring the circle and the square

1596
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:33,839
together you're bringing together the

1597
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:35,760
known and the unknown or you're bringing

1598
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:38,400
together the Heavenly and the Earthly

1599
00:58:43,549 --> 00:58:41,400
it's why many temples Inc you know and

1600
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:43,559
churches these days have domes sat on

1601
00:58:49,609 --> 00:58:46,020
top of squares it's that idea of

1602
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:49,619
bringing Heaven to Earth or marrying the

1603
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:52,140
spirit with matter and I think there

1604
00:58:57,170 --> 00:58:55,440
there is something implicitly implied by

1605
00:58:59,329 --> 00:58:57,180
that you know the fact that we've got

1606
00:59:00,829 --> 00:58:59,339
something going on in the fields here

1607
00:59:03,770 --> 00:59:00,839
which is

1608
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:03,780
um a marriage of somehow a marriage

1609
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:06,720
between spiritual consciousness and

1610
00:59:12,289 --> 00:59:10,440
matter itself so I think by these are

1611
00:59:13,849 --> 00:59:12,299
very very deep philosophical questions

1612
00:59:16,430 --> 00:59:13,859
you know that have kept crop circle

1613
00:59:18,650 --> 00:59:16,440
researchers up till the wee hours for

1614
00:59:21,049 --> 00:59:18,660
you know decades

1615
00:59:23,690 --> 00:59:21,059
um but you know by by looking at this

1616
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:23,700
you know even by looking at the gestures

1617
00:59:27,890 --> 00:59:26,400
um again our friend Michael would point

1618
00:59:30,170 --> 00:59:27,900
out something when you looked at a

1619
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:30,180
circle called a Hospitality portal well

1620
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,440
what does that mean because it sounds

1621
00:59:35,569 --> 00:59:33,839
weird but but actually what it means is

1622
00:59:38,809 --> 00:59:35,579
that very often the geometry of the

1623
00:59:41,630 --> 00:59:38,819
circles is arranged on the ground so

1624
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,640
that you can access every Point inside a

1625
00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:43,920
circle without having to flatten any

1626
00:59:48,589 --> 00:59:46,680
more crop and that makes it very very

1627
00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:48,599
difficult to draw sometimes because you

1628
00:59:52,490 --> 00:59:50,220
have to pull the geometry out because

1629
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:52,500
the lines don't don't mean you pull them

1630
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:55,920
out so that it allows access so you know

1631
01:00:02,270 --> 00:59:58,559
these are we're talking about whole

1632
01:00:04,490 --> 01:00:02,280
symbolic geometric gestural language

1633
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:04,500
here going going on in the fields and

1634
01:00:08,569 --> 01:00:06,240
and again this is another real passion

1635
01:00:10,490 --> 01:00:08,579
of mine I think again there's something

1636
01:00:13,250 --> 01:00:10,500
going on here that if you pay attention

1637
01:00:15,710 --> 01:00:13,260
if you learn to be a noticer of things

1638
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:15,720
which is what Michael would say that he

1639
01:00:20,569 --> 01:00:18,240
was and no noticer of things it's it's

1640
01:00:23,210 --> 01:00:20,579
like learning a new language it's like

1641
01:00:25,549 --> 01:00:23,220
learning this subtle language that you

1642
01:00:27,530 --> 01:00:25,559
know tells us about you know which is as

1643
01:00:30,049 --> 01:00:27,540
applicable here as it is in the wider

1644
01:00:32,210 --> 01:00:30,059
Cosmos so again you know Gary was

1645
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:32,220
talking about a brilliant

1646
01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:34,799
um geometer called John Martino who

1647
01:00:38,510 --> 01:00:36,059
wrote this wonderful book called a

1648
01:00:40,089 --> 01:00:38,520
little book of coincidence and it's

1649
01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:40,099
about how

1650
01:00:45,950 --> 01:00:43,319
the the planets in the in the solar

1651
01:00:49,069 --> 01:00:45,960
system are arranged geometrically it's

1652
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,079
not just a random thing at all

1653
01:00:53,390 --> 01:00:51,359
um and not only are they arranged so in

1654
01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:53,400
our solar system but it when you begin

1655
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:54,660
to look

1656
01:01:00,589 --> 01:00:57,599
out you see that that the whole of the

1657
01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:00,599
cosmos is arranged according to the this

1658
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:03,180
Canon of geometry and to see that then

1659
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,520
repeated in the fields used in in the

1660
01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:07,440
fields here again it kind of gives you

1661
01:01:11,390 --> 01:01:09,660
this idea that there's something we're

1662
01:01:14,270 --> 01:01:11,400
being taught something really important

1663
01:01:16,670 --> 01:01:14,280
here about the way that the cosmos works

1664
01:01:18,530 --> 01:01:16,680
so you know again this is I mean it's

1665
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:18,540
such a huge topic

1666
01:01:21,530 --> 01:01:19,920
um you know I'm going to be quiet now

1667
01:01:23,270 --> 01:01:21,540
because I've said quite enough and but

1668
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:23,280
I'd be interested to hear what Gary

1669
01:01:31,069 --> 01:01:29,390
yeah please thanks Karen perfect to

1670
01:01:33,589 --> 01:01:31,079
follow Karen

1671
01:01:34,730 --> 01:01:33,599
um yeah this is it this is this is the

1672
01:01:35,450 --> 01:01:34,740
you know

1673
01:01:37,370 --> 01:01:35,460
um

1674
01:01:39,170 --> 01:01:37,380
because when you move away from the

1675
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:39,180
who's doing it the whodunit of the whole

1676
01:01:43,069 --> 01:01:41,460
scenario you're then on to what you know

1677
01:01:45,049 --> 01:01:43,079
what do these symbols mean and I often

1678
01:01:47,390 --> 01:01:45,059
say it at presentations when I give them

1679
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:47,400
you know imagine if you wake up in your

1680
01:01:51,289 --> 01:01:49,260
house one morning and you come down and

1681
01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:51,299
somebody's put this mysterious symbol on

1682
01:01:55,609 --> 01:01:53,640
a piece of paper or some strange

1683
01:01:58,370 --> 01:01:55,619
arrangement of geometry you know through

1684
01:02:00,410 --> 01:01:58,380
your door and you you step outside and

1685
01:02:01,789 --> 01:02:00,420
look up the street and you find all your

1686
01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:01,799
neighbors out in the street who've also

1687
01:02:05,569 --> 01:02:04,200
all had one and they're also we all look

1688
01:02:07,069 --> 01:02:05,579
at each other and scratching your heads

1689
01:02:08,990 --> 01:02:07,079
and saying we know what what's all this

1690
01:02:10,370 --> 01:02:09,000
about then but instead of saying that

1691
01:02:12,170 --> 01:02:10,380
you're saying well who put this through

1692
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:12,180
our letterbox so you put up cameras and

1693
01:02:15,289 --> 01:02:13,680
you spend 40 years trying to catch the

1694
01:02:16,910 --> 01:02:15,299
postman but you never catch him really

1695
01:02:18,349 --> 01:02:16,920
you know people are saying that they are

1696
01:02:20,569 --> 01:02:18,359
the postman but they can't really

1697
01:02:22,069 --> 01:02:20,579
convince you enough of that So

1698
01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:22,079
eventually you have to say what do these

1699
01:02:25,970 --> 01:02:23,819
things mean you know what's it what are

1700
01:02:28,549 --> 01:02:25,980
they what what is trying to be

1701
01:02:31,309 --> 01:02:28,559
communicated to us and as Karen said you

1702
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:31,319
know this geometry is is is a universal

1703
01:02:35,450 --> 01:02:33,260
language because it's basically number

1704
01:02:37,549 --> 01:02:35,460
and it comes from this Canon of learn

1705
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:37,559
that the Greeks called the

1706
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:39,599
um Seven Liberal Arts the quadrivium and

1707
01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:40,680
the Trivium

1708
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:43,380
so the four parts the quadrivium is

1709
01:02:48,730 --> 01:02:45,780
number which is when you think about it

1710
01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:48,740
a completely abstract sort of a priori

1711
01:02:53,089 --> 01:02:51,240
subject it was number was here before

1712
01:02:54,650 --> 01:02:53,099
you know we think we invented it but all

1713
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:54,660
we invented were symbols to denote

1714
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,400
numbers

1715
01:03:00,109 --> 01:02:58,440
um and so we think of them because we

1716
01:03:02,030 --> 01:03:00,119
learn in school you know if you go to

1717
01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:02,040
the the green Grocers and you buy some

1718
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:03,420
oranges and you know how much change

1719
01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:04,799
will you come back with and we think of

1720
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,540
it in terms of quantities but there's

1721
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:08,880
this qualitative aspect to it

1722
01:03:13,970 --> 01:03:11,119
like Karen mentioned the Oneness of

1723
01:03:16,670 --> 01:03:13,980
absoluteness and unity and the threeness

1724
01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:16,680
of a triangle you know three is a

1725
01:03:20,990 --> 01:03:18,540
triangle in space and that's geometry

1726
01:03:22,849 --> 01:03:21,000
the next thing is geometry is number in

1727
01:03:24,650 --> 01:03:22,859
space

1728
01:03:27,230 --> 01:03:24,660
um and so three three and it says the

1729
01:03:29,569 --> 01:03:27,240
quality of a tripod you can you can get

1730
01:03:31,490 --> 01:03:29,579
stability to sit on us a milking stall

1731
01:03:33,950 --> 01:03:31,500
with three legs but you can't with two

1732
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,960
legs so there's there's a mediator can

1733
01:03:38,569 --> 01:03:36,000
step in and break up two people who are

1734
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:38,579
fighting because a quality of three will

1735
01:03:42,650 --> 01:03:40,799
intersect and so you start to learn oh

1736
01:03:44,809 --> 01:03:42,660
number's not just about counting and

1737
01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:44,819
stuff then you look at music and music

1738
01:03:49,069 --> 01:03:47,400
is numbering time

1739
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:49,079
um and so and so as Karen was saying

1740
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:50,280
okay the brilliant work of John

1741
01:03:54,349 --> 01:03:52,260
Martineau when he he figured out and he

1742
01:03:55,730 --> 01:03:54,359
and he was inspired by the crop circles

1743
01:03:58,670 --> 01:03:55,740
to do this

1744
01:04:00,349 --> 01:03:58,680
he he he worked out the the we were

1745
01:04:02,089 --> 01:04:00,359
dealing with whole number ratios and

1746
01:04:03,950 --> 01:04:02,099
proportions very simple whole number

1747
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,960
ratios and proportions stuff that's not

1748
01:04:07,370 --> 01:04:05,760
complicated

1749
01:04:10,250 --> 01:04:07,380
um and so he created a computer program

1750
01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:10,260
and he fed in the relative sizes of the

1751
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,359
orbits and size relative sizes of the

1752
01:04:16,490 --> 01:04:14,640
planets in our solar system and found

1753
01:04:18,289 --> 01:04:16,500
out that they're all organized in the

1754
01:04:20,809 --> 01:04:18,299
same way that you would organize tuning

1755
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:20,819
a guitar a musical scale whole number

1756
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:22,799
ratios two to one three to one two to

1757
01:04:29,089 --> 01:04:25,200
one's an octave and so on and so music

1758
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:29,099
is numbering in in in time and then when

1759
01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:31,200
you look at astronomy the fourth of this

1760
01:04:35,870 --> 01:04:34,020
of the um quadrivium the fourth art of

1761
01:04:38,990 --> 01:04:35,880
the quadrivium it's it's astronomy which

1762
01:04:41,049 --> 01:04:39,000
is number in time and space and now

1763
01:04:43,250 --> 01:04:41,059
we're getting some sort of insights into

1764
01:04:45,049 --> 01:04:43,260
Stonehenge and Avery and these sort of

1765
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:45,059
ancient monuments that make us scratch

1766
01:04:48,650 --> 01:04:46,980
our heads that they're calendars and

1767
01:04:52,190 --> 01:04:48,660
they observe the planets moving around

1768
01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:52,200
over time in space around us and that's

1769
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:54,359
how we began as human beings to scratch

1770
01:04:59,150 --> 01:04:56,880
our heads and wonder what the hell all

1771
01:05:00,530 --> 01:04:59,160
this life stuff's about and where are we

1772
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:00,540
you know and is there some sort of

1773
01:05:04,190 --> 01:05:02,400
meaning to this and

1774
01:05:05,930 --> 01:05:04,200
and then you know and as Karen said

1775
01:05:07,730 --> 01:05:05,940
really not to label the point but that's

1776
01:05:09,289 --> 01:05:07,740
that's had a lot of us up scratching our

1777
01:05:11,450 --> 01:05:09,299
heads and having some really interesting

1778
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,460
conversations and speculations about all

1779
01:05:15,650 --> 01:05:13,920
sorts of things because of these topics

1780
01:05:17,809 --> 01:05:15,660
which you know really come up as a

1781
01:05:18,890 --> 01:05:17,819
result of studying these mysterious

1782
01:05:25,250 --> 01:05:18,900
circles

1783
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:25,260
you know I worked in Mexico for a number

1784
01:05:28,490 --> 01:05:27,180
of years and they call them aggreglyphs

1785
01:05:30,049 --> 01:05:28,500
and I quite like you know that you're

1786
01:05:31,309 --> 01:05:30,059
calling them a glyph and that you know

1787
01:05:32,809 --> 01:05:31,319
there's there's something more powerful

1788
01:05:34,670 --> 01:05:32,819
to them rather than Circle because they

1789
01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:34,680
they were circles in the early days but

1790
01:05:38,329 --> 01:05:36,660
they've they've not been you know just

1791
01:05:40,250 --> 01:05:38,339
circles for a very long time really

1792
01:05:42,589 --> 01:05:40,260
although they still appear as circles

1793
01:05:45,710 --> 01:05:42,599
every day it just remind us of the power

1794
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:45,720
of this simple Circle sure you've both

1795
01:05:49,130 --> 01:05:47,520
give two wonderful answers there as well

1796
01:05:51,470 --> 01:05:49,140
so thanks for that listen let's get to

1797
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:51,480
some listener questions and um many of

1798
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:53,099
us in our questions you've answered in

1799
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:54,240
the body of what you've talked about

1800
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:55,920
which is great so thank you if you sent

1801
01:06:00,049 --> 01:05:57,960
over a question you may have had the

1802
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,059
answer already but uh some of the ones

1803
01:06:04,849 --> 01:06:02,160
I've been sent in so first off from Jim

1804
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:04,859
Jim asks could you ask your guest Jim

1805
01:06:09,289 --> 01:06:07,440
sent this via email too so thank you Jim

1806
01:06:10,970 --> 01:06:09,299
um what is the single most compelling

1807
01:06:13,730 --> 01:06:10,980
piece of evidence that leads them to

1808
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:13,740
believe this phenomena is not natural so

1809
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:16,799
if you had to boil it down to one thing

1810
01:06:21,349 --> 01:06:19,920
I'll start with Karen one thing member

1811
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,359
of the public comes up and says tell me

1812
01:06:25,490 --> 01:06:23,280
one thing you've got I don't know what a

1813
01:06:27,770 --> 01:06:25,500
couple of links to tell me why is this

1814
01:06:30,170 --> 01:06:27,780
not a natural phenomena

1815
01:06:32,809 --> 01:06:30,180
oh it's so hard to do this

1816
01:06:35,510 --> 01:06:32,819
um it's so hard to do it

1817
01:06:38,089 --> 01:06:35,520
um I think I think one of the the things

1818
01:06:40,130 --> 01:06:38,099
is it's longevity I suppose you know

1819
01:06:42,529 --> 01:06:40,140
that it's just been going on for so long

1820
01:06:44,750 --> 01:06:42,539
now and as I was saying earlier you know

1821
01:06:46,970 --> 01:06:44,760
reports of crop circles I mean they go

1822
01:06:49,370 --> 01:06:46,980
way way back I mean I've spoken to many

1823
01:06:52,849 --> 01:06:49,380
farmers who say they played in them as

1824
01:06:55,730 --> 01:06:52,859
kids you know or even parents of farmers

1825
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:55,740
who said they played in them as kids so

1826
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:57,599
um you know there's a lot of you know

1827
01:07:00,529 --> 01:06:59,039
historical

1828
01:07:02,569 --> 01:07:00,539
um work to show that this has been

1829
01:07:05,390 --> 01:07:02,579
actually going on for a long time I

1830
01:07:08,329 --> 01:07:05,400
think some of the earliest pictures

1831
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:08,339
um I think maybe the the turn of the

1832
01:07:12,770 --> 01:07:11,039
century maybe you know so you know that

1833
01:07:15,289 --> 01:07:12,780
just when photography was beginning to

1834
01:07:17,150 --> 01:07:15,299
be to be used so

1835
01:07:20,569 --> 01:07:17,160
um so yeah it's longevity and I think

1836
01:07:22,609 --> 01:07:20,579
despite the fact that you know

1837
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,619
people want to keep writing it off it

1838
01:07:26,690 --> 01:07:24,960
still keeps happening so you know I

1839
01:07:28,609 --> 01:07:26,700
think that would be the one thing would

1840
01:07:31,789 --> 01:07:28,619
would be just how long it's been been

1841
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:31,799
going on and just and also not that just

1842
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,359
going on in this country but going on

1843
01:07:37,849 --> 01:07:35,760
all over the world as well the crop

1844
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:37,859
circles have been reported in I think

1845
01:07:42,829 --> 01:07:40,319
I think well over 60 different countries

1846
01:07:44,930 --> 01:07:42,839
now so you know it would be those two

1847
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,940
things perhaps I think

1848
01:07:49,130 --> 01:07:47,039
before I asked Gary just on that

1849
01:07:50,990 --> 01:07:49,140
longevity would it be fair to say the

1850
01:07:53,569 --> 01:07:51,000
crop circle phenomena could have been

1851
01:07:55,609 --> 01:07:53,579
going on for centuries however before

1852
01:07:57,650 --> 01:07:55,619
the Advent of being able to get up in

1853
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:57,660
the air to look down upon crops and take

1854
01:08:01,609 --> 01:07:59,520
a picture of it or even fly over it

1855
01:08:02,450 --> 01:08:01,619
people would have just presumed it would

1856
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:02,460
have been

1857
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:04,799
sabotaged or damaged crops because they

1858
01:08:09,470 --> 01:08:06,960
would have walked in at eye level and

1859
01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:09,480
seen crops bent over and that that would

1860
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:10,500
have been it wouldn't they because

1861
01:08:14,029 --> 01:08:12,000
there's no there would have been no way

1862
01:08:17,329 --> 01:08:14,039
of knowing oh there's some incredible

1863
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:17,339
geometric pattern woven into this huge

1864
01:08:22,010 --> 01:08:18,960
expanse of crops I have they would have

1865
01:08:23,150 --> 01:08:22,020
just seen the crops were bent over is

1866
01:08:25,189 --> 01:08:23,160
that is that fair yes I think that's

1867
01:08:27,769 --> 01:08:25,199
fair and I think that there's folklore

1868
01:08:30,289 --> 01:08:27,779
to suggest that that happened

1869
01:08:32,090 --> 01:08:30,299
um you know Fair fairy rings and you

1870
01:08:34,610 --> 01:08:32,100
know um encounters with things like

1871
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:34,620
Willow the Wisp you know who a ball of

1872
01:08:38,450 --> 01:08:36,239
light that would lead people Australian

1873
01:08:40,430 --> 01:08:38,460
the countryside so yeah I think you know

1874
01:08:42,650 --> 01:08:40,440
once you begin to dig back into folklore

1875
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,660
you you realize that there's every

1876
01:08:46,189 --> 01:08:44,400
possibility that it's been going on on

1877
01:08:48,769 --> 01:08:46,199
for a very very long time there's

1878
01:08:52,189 --> 01:08:48,779
actually an old wood cut that that dates

1879
01:08:53,090 --> 01:08:52,199
back to the 16th century 1600s I think

1880
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,100
actually

1881
01:08:57,769 --> 01:08:55,679
um it's called the mowing devil and

1882
01:09:00,410 --> 01:08:57,779
there's a the woodcut of a devil kind of

1883
01:09:01,669 --> 01:09:00,420
mowing a circle into a crop field and

1884
01:09:03,470 --> 01:09:01,679
there's kind of like a little story

1885
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:03,480
about it you know where the farmer was

1886
01:09:08,570 --> 01:09:05,040
looking for somebody to come and harvest

1887
01:09:10,849 --> 01:09:08,580
his field and the the various workmen

1888
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,859
were giving him their price to come and

1889
01:09:15,229 --> 01:09:13,199
do it and he was saying no no no better

1890
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:15,239
the devil come and do it then we pay you

1891
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:18,000
that but but that that would cut does

1892
01:09:22,669 --> 01:09:20,400
exist and um some people have said

1893
01:09:24,769 --> 01:09:22,679
perhaps it's related to crop circles I

1894
01:09:27,229 --> 01:09:24,779
think it's possible but nobody knows for

1895
01:09:29,150 --> 01:09:27,239
sure but certainly they're they're there

1896
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:29,160
is that kind of folklore element to it

1897
01:09:32,809 --> 01:09:30,719
sure

1898
01:09:34,430 --> 01:09:32,819
Gary will come to you as well your your

1899
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:34,440
single most compelling piece of evidence

1900
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:36,480
I just want to just want to on what

1901
01:09:41,570 --> 01:09:39,420
Karen was just saying there just say

1902
01:09:43,370 --> 01:09:41,580
um they're also there are elevated

1903
01:09:45,289 --> 01:09:43,380
positions in Wiltshire where you can

1904
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:45,299
look down onto the fields like a Barbary

1905
01:09:49,249 --> 01:09:46,799
castle for example you know you don't

1906
01:09:50,990 --> 01:09:49,259
have to be flying completely to be able

1907
01:09:53,450 --> 01:09:51,000
to see crop circles you know there

1908
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,460
because the land sort of undulates you

1909
01:09:57,650 --> 01:09:55,920
can be on one side of a valley and look

1910
01:10:00,110 --> 01:09:57,660
across to another and see a crop circle

1911
01:10:01,490 --> 01:10:00,120
and there are lots I I made some

1912
01:10:04,430 --> 01:10:01,500
documentaries when I was in Mexico for

1913
01:10:05,750 --> 01:10:04,440
Gaia TV and there there's a wonderful

1914
01:10:07,130 --> 01:10:05,760
book the history of crop service has

1915
01:10:09,770 --> 01:10:07,140
been written what's his name is it Terry

1916
01:10:11,870 --> 01:10:09,780
Terry Wilson Terry Wilson Terry Wilson

1917
01:10:13,370 --> 01:10:11,880
wonderful book on Amazon it said and he

1918
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:13,380
reads a couple of pounds really worth

1919
01:10:16,010 --> 01:10:14,400
reading because there's some great

1920
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:16,020
evidence and photographs in there of

1921
01:10:19,970 --> 01:10:18,239
simple circles many of them that have

1922
01:10:22,610 --> 01:10:19,980
appeared over the years

1923
01:10:25,130 --> 01:10:22,620
um and so there are lots of stories that

1924
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:25,140
were published in newspapers where

1925
01:10:29,930 --> 01:10:26,159
um

1926
01:10:31,370 --> 01:10:29,940
in their sort of Elder years and saying

1927
01:10:33,050 --> 01:10:31,380
oh we used to play in those as children

1928
01:10:34,729 --> 01:10:33,060
when my grandfather had a farm and they

1929
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:34,739
just told us they were fairy rings and

1930
01:10:39,410 --> 01:10:36,480
you know we rolled around in them and we

1931
01:10:42,169 --> 01:10:39,420
did all this so so there is a lot of you

1932
01:10:45,110 --> 01:10:42,179
know stories that go back about them

1933
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,120
um and so yeah it it but once once Colin

1934
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:47,520
Andrews and busty Taylor and Pat Delgado

1935
01:10:50,990 --> 01:10:48,900
started to pay more attention in the

1936
01:10:52,490 --> 01:10:51,000
late 70s and then wrote the book and

1937
01:10:54,410 --> 01:10:52,500
then people started to fly around and

1938
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:54,420
then he seems like the phenomena

1939
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,679
responded and

1940
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:58,560
and and brought us more on the on the

1941
01:11:01,550 --> 01:11:00,000
one thing that's compelling I would say

1942
01:11:02,930 --> 01:11:01,560
it's difficult to say one thing it's

1943
01:11:04,729 --> 01:11:02,940
it's what I mentioned earlier really

1944
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:04,739
it's time frame and working conditions

1945
01:11:08,510 --> 01:11:06,840
for me if you know on a feet on the

1946
01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:08,520
ground sort of level all the other stuff

1947
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:11,159
that's a little bit less tangible this

1948
01:11:15,470 --> 01:11:13,440
is very tangible to me

1949
01:11:17,630 --> 01:11:15,480
um and so so if I you know as I said if

1950
01:11:19,610 --> 01:11:17,640
I see a crop circle that's that's that

1951
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:19,620
we know has appeared under certain

1952
01:11:23,810 --> 01:11:21,360
conditions

1953
01:11:25,550 --> 01:11:23,820
um in in in a very short time frame then

1954
01:11:28,070 --> 01:11:25,560
to me that's the one compelling piece of

1955
01:11:29,930 --> 01:11:28,080
evidence that says I mean I often say

1956
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:29,940
this Karen draws them

1957
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,159
and I say to people okay if you want you

1958
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:33,600
know it's not easy to go out into the

1959
01:11:36,590 --> 01:11:35,280
fields in the dark and try to see if you

1960
01:11:38,930 --> 01:11:36,600
can make one like Karen did with some

1961
01:11:41,330 --> 01:11:38,940
friends earlier but if you want an idea

1962
01:11:42,890 --> 01:11:41,340
then get a piece of paper A3 piece of

1963
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:42,900
paper get you get your compasses and

1964
01:11:47,090 --> 01:11:44,880
your pencil and paper out all right and

1965
01:11:49,010 --> 01:11:47,100
and Draw Something Draw crop circle a

1966
01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:49,020
nice one and when you've done that

1967
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:51,600
without making any mistakes because you

1968
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:53,159
can't use a rubber you can't make crop

1969
01:11:56,270 --> 01:11:54,719
stand back up so you have to do it

1970
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,280
perfect first time

1971
01:12:00,590 --> 01:11:58,800
when you've done that then I want you to

1972
01:12:02,090 --> 01:12:00,600
take your pay take another sheet of

1973
01:12:04,790 --> 01:12:02,100
paper and I'll put it on an uneven

1974
01:12:07,130 --> 01:12:04,800
surface and turn all the lights off and

1975
01:12:09,410 --> 01:12:07,140
do it again without making any mistakes

1976
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:09,420
and that's on paper then if you want to

1977
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:10,739
go into a field and show us how you do

1978
01:12:16,490 --> 01:12:12,900
that over a thousand feet I'd love to

1979
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:16,500
see it so that's that's for me the most

1980
01:12:21,169 --> 01:12:18,960
compelling piece of

1981
01:12:23,330 --> 01:12:21,179
yeah no I feel I like that

1982
01:12:25,010 --> 01:12:23,340
um on a similar similar vein question

1983
01:12:26,510 --> 01:12:25,020
from Steve Webb

1984
01:12:28,610 --> 01:12:26,520
um Steve would like to know since there

1985
01:12:30,649 --> 01:12:28,620
are numerous circles in and around the

1986
01:12:32,750 --> 01:12:30,659
wheelchair for years are the police

1987
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:32,760
actively investigating the criminal

1988
01:12:36,590 --> 01:12:34,560
damage aspect

1989
01:12:38,570 --> 01:12:36,600
um or if they've come to any conclusions

1990
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,580
and therefore not attempting to

1991
01:12:43,630 --> 01:12:40,800
investigate it can I go for that Karen

1992
01:12:46,729 --> 01:12:43,640
yeah sure if you go

1993
01:12:49,310 --> 01:12:46,739
isn't it amazing huh you've got a crime

1994
01:12:51,709 --> 01:12:49,320
spree a vandalism that's happening over

1995
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,719
40 years and it happens in the same

1996
01:12:55,790 --> 01:12:54,239
place every year and it would be really

1997
01:12:57,530 --> 01:12:55,800
easy to catch people because you'd only

1998
01:12:59,810 --> 01:12:57,540
have to stand five miles away and you'd

1999
01:13:03,530 --> 01:12:59,820
see torches and you just drive over and

2000
01:13:05,689 --> 01:13:03,540
arrest people and yet in 40 years we

2001
01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:05,699
have one arrest from someone making a

2002
01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:07,800
crop circle and he went to the police

2003
01:13:12,590 --> 01:13:10,500
and confessed I did it Governor you got

2004
01:13:13,790 --> 01:13:12,600
me and and they found a board and a

2005
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:13,800
piece of rope leading against the wall

2006
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:16,080
and said here's the evidence exhibit a

2007
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:17,520
your honor

2008
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:19,440
um that's not good enough for me as a

2009
01:13:23,510 --> 01:13:21,600
lawyer you know from the past I would

2010
01:13:25,729 --> 01:13:23,520
want to see far more evidence for that

2011
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:25,739
and if I had a client that said yes I

2012
01:13:29,450 --> 01:13:27,600
murdered someone in Scotland last week

2013
01:13:31,729 --> 01:13:29,460
and I only had 25 minutes to get there

2014
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:31,739
I'd say I think we need to section my

2015
01:13:36,590 --> 01:13:33,360
client because he's making unreasonable

2016
01:13:39,709 --> 01:13:36,600
claims your honor so um isn't it amazing

2017
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,719
that we've had this 40-year crime spree

2018
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:41,280
um in the same location can you imagine

2019
01:13:45,290 --> 01:13:42,960
a burglar turning up in your street

2020
01:13:46,910 --> 01:13:45,300
every year for 40 years and robbing

2021
01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:46,920
every house there and yet the police

2022
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:48,719
couldn't catch him

2023
01:13:52,729 --> 01:13:51,360
or teams of them if there's 10 teams

2024
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:52,739
that come from other countries as we've

2025
01:13:57,229 --> 01:13:54,719
been told over the years where do they

2026
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:57,239
stay how do they hide how do they not

2027
01:14:02,390 --> 01:14:00,000
get seen how do they not get caught it

2028
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:02,400
goes on and on it becomes ridiculous

2029
01:14:06,290 --> 01:14:04,560
would you not agree

2030
01:14:08,510 --> 01:14:06,300
and you know that's fair even thinking

2031
01:14:10,189 --> 01:14:08,520
about that that you would as you say

2032
01:14:12,169 --> 01:14:10,199
telling someone to go and do it you're

2033
01:14:13,729 --> 01:14:12,179
you're usually having to break into

2034
01:14:14,890 --> 01:14:13,739
someone's property aren't you like

2035
01:14:17,450 --> 01:14:14,900
that's perhaps

2036
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:17,460
try and Destroy destroy what's going to

2037
01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:19,260
be food products and everything else as

2038
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:20,400
well so yeah

2039
01:14:26,510 --> 01:14:22,800
also I'd just like to add to that that I

2040
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,520
also think in in this conversation what

2041
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:28,560
is not talked about anywhere near enough

2042
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:33,120
are the farmers who you know have put up

2043
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:35,040
with crop circles appearing on their

2044
01:14:40,729 --> 01:14:37,920
land sometimes for you know well for 30

2045
01:14:42,890 --> 01:14:40,739
years for instance you know who would

2046
01:14:44,209 --> 01:14:42,900
have maybe one or two a year

2047
01:14:52,430 --> 01:14:44,219
you know

2048
01:14:55,310 --> 01:14:52,440
really does upset them they find it some

2049
01:14:58,910 --> 01:14:55,320
of them find it very distressing

2050
01:15:00,649 --> 01:14:58,920
um and you know I think you know that

2051
01:15:02,450 --> 01:15:00,659
that's something that you know we need

2052
01:15:05,090 --> 01:15:02,460
to consider

2053
01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:05,100
um you know it's not not just fun and

2054
01:15:09,050 --> 01:15:07,620
games you know about who makes them and

2055
01:15:11,810 --> 01:15:09,060
all you know that there are people as

2056
01:15:14,390 --> 01:15:11,820
you say it affects their livelihood

2057
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:14,400
um and I think that's a serious thing

2058
01:15:18,290 --> 01:15:17,040
um and I you know I mean some I mean

2059
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:18,300
don't get me wrong some farmers are

2060
01:15:22,970 --> 01:15:20,820
great and they're just as fascinated by

2061
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:22,980
by it as we are you know I've met some

2062
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:25,199
great Farmers over the years and there

2063
01:15:27,890 --> 01:15:26,880
was one a couple of years ago who was

2064
01:15:30,169 --> 01:15:27,900
just

2065
01:15:32,030 --> 01:15:30,179
spent more of his time for two weeks

2066
01:15:33,649 --> 01:15:32,040
talking to people in his crop circle

2067
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:33,659
than he did working on his farm because

2068
01:15:38,630 --> 01:15:36,000
he was just fascinated by what people

2069
01:15:41,330 --> 01:15:38,640
made of it so so it's not all bad news

2070
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:41,340
but for some Farmers this is it it it's

2071
01:15:45,649 --> 01:15:43,199
distressing for them you know they they

2072
01:15:47,030 --> 01:15:45,659
don't a they don't want it there in the

2073
01:15:48,530 --> 01:15:47,040
first place and then they have to deal

2074
01:15:50,810 --> 01:15:48,540
with the fact that people want to come

2075
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,820
and look at them you know

2076
01:15:54,410 --> 01:15:52,800
um and you know you just think you know

2077
01:15:57,050 --> 01:15:54,420
someday one of these Farmers is going to

2078
01:15:59,030 --> 01:15:57,060
give themselves a heart attack you know

2079
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:59,040
patrolling up and down the field in

2080
01:16:03,229 --> 01:16:00,960
their Land Rover or whatever you know I

2081
01:16:05,090 --> 01:16:03,239
mean it's it's a serious thing I you

2082
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:05,100
know I I think you know we shouldn't

2083
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:07,440
talk glibly about it really I I feel

2084
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:09,360
very sorry for some of them

2085
01:16:14,570 --> 01:16:12,480
yeah yeah a question from well-behaved

2086
01:16:17,390 --> 01:16:14,580
dogs on what may be causing some of

2087
01:16:19,130 --> 01:16:17,400
those early crop circles he uh he says

2088
01:16:20,810 --> 01:16:19,140
I'm assuming it's a he

2089
01:16:23,149 --> 01:16:20,820
um is it possible that some of the early

2090
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:23,159
70s crop circles which were very simple

2091
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:26,159
such as a circle and four dots were made

2092
01:16:30,830 --> 01:16:29,040
by satellite Mazer technology as a

2093
01:16:33,110 --> 01:16:30,840
simple calibration test and I had to

2094
01:16:35,149 --> 01:16:33,120
look up Mazer it wasn't a misspelling

2095
01:16:37,310 --> 01:16:35,159
and major Technology's an acronym for

2096
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:37,320
microwave amplification by stimulated

2097
01:16:42,350 --> 01:16:40,320
emission of radiation wow

2098
01:16:43,490 --> 01:16:42,360
yeah I always I always love those sorts

2099
01:16:45,169 --> 01:16:43,500
of questions because I can just see all

2100
01:16:46,910 --> 01:16:45,179
the military generals sitting around the

2101
01:16:48,410 --> 01:16:46,920
table you know and and saying right what

2102
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:48,420
are we going to do now to frighten the

2103
01:16:52,669 --> 01:16:50,880
pants off Vladimir Putin and one of them

2104
01:16:54,649 --> 01:16:52,679
steps up and says I know we'll invest

2105
01:16:56,330 --> 01:16:54,659
several billion pounds into creating

2106
01:16:59,570 --> 01:16:56,340
these satellites that can make pretty

2107
01:17:01,130 --> 01:16:59,580
patterns in flowers for 40 years and

2108
01:17:02,990 --> 01:17:01,140
frighten the pants off

2109
01:17:05,330 --> 01:17:03,000
I mean that's that doesn't doesn't

2110
01:17:08,930 --> 01:17:05,340
really go for that sort of spending or

2111
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:08,940
justifying doing it just to just a I

2112
01:17:12,890 --> 01:17:10,260
don't know

2113
01:17:14,450 --> 01:17:12,900
make make some new age researchers

2114
01:17:16,910 --> 01:17:14,460
so-called New Age researchers like

2115
01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:16,920
ourselves look a bit silly it seems to

2116
01:17:20,870 --> 01:17:18,719
be in a misappropriation of funds I

2117
01:17:23,090 --> 01:17:20,880
would suggest to invest in that sort of

2118
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:23,100
Technology it's possible that something

2119
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:24,960
like that could be made but I don't know

2120
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:27,600
why or why they would continue to use it

2121
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:30,320
for all this time

2122
01:17:35,209 --> 01:17:32,880
I also think that if you're going to

2123
01:17:37,490 --> 01:17:35,219
test something like that this Salisbury

2124
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:37,500
plane just a few miles away you would do

2125
01:17:41,510 --> 01:17:38,719
it there

2126
01:17:43,729 --> 01:17:41,520
because you can't fly over Salisbury

2127
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,739
Plain without permission

2128
01:17:46,669 --> 01:17:45,120
um I mean I know because I've tried many

2129
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:46,679
times um you know you have to get

2130
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:48,300
permission from Air Traffic Control to

2131
01:17:52,430 --> 01:17:50,159
go over and if they're testing something

2132
01:17:55,010 --> 01:17:52,440
up there not a chance you'll get

2133
01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:55,020
anywhere near it so I I honestly I think

2134
01:17:58,669 --> 01:17:56,880
if they were testing something like that

2135
01:18:00,350 --> 01:17:58,679
it would be done away from the public

2136
01:18:02,149 --> 01:18:00,360
eye there would be no need to do it in

2137
01:18:03,890 --> 01:18:02,159
public at all

2138
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:03,900
that was going to be what I was going to

2139
01:18:07,850 --> 01:18:05,760
see as well that you would test it you

2140
01:18:09,770 --> 01:18:07,860
know out in a out in a military range

2141
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:09,780
somewhere you know far far away from the

2142
01:18:13,970 --> 01:18:12,000
public eye but then again in the UFO

2143
01:18:16,370 --> 01:18:13,980
topic we often talk about you know where

2144
01:18:18,649 --> 01:18:16,380
those Tic Tacs us technology testing on

2145
01:18:20,750 --> 01:18:18,659
their own you know are they flying

2146
01:18:23,149 --> 01:18:20,760
triangles of back engineered over public

2147
01:18:24,649 --> 01:18:23,159
areas because well why not if the

2148
01:18:26,570 --> 01:18:24,659
Technology's there but it's an

2149
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:26,580
interesting debate but yeah for me I I

2150
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:28,620
would agree that it would be a very

2151
01:18:31,790 --> 01:18:30,239
silly way to test that type of

2152
01:18:33,169 --> 01:18:31,800
Technology but that's not to say that

2153
01:18:35,090 --> 01:18:33,179
our governments and military base and

2154
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:35,100
they'll make up the best decisions so

2155
01:18:39,229 --> 01:18:37,199
yeah good question

2156
01:18:41,510 --> 01:18:39,239
um this is similar to what we talked

2157
01:18:43,010 --> 01:18:41,520
about regarding the what are crop

2158
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:43,020
circles but again just to convey

2159
01:18:47,390 --> 01:18:45,360
question from Jimmy he asks could you

2160
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,400
ask Karen and Gary if they believe that

2161
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:49,440
non-human-made crop circles are an

2162
01:18:53,630 --> 01:18:52,080
attempt at communication and if so any

2163
01:18:56,870 --> 01:18:53,640
ideas what they're trying to convey just

2164
01:18:59,149 --> 01:18:56,880
to summarize maybe what you said before

2165
01:19:01,490 --> 01:18:59,159
um yes I did I do think that there is

2166
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:01,500
something that operates through through

2167
01:19:05,810 --> 01:19:03,480
the crop circle phenomenon that is

2168
01:19:07,729 --> 01:19:05,820
trying to communicate

2169
01:19:10,250 --> 01:19:07,739
um definitely and absolutely

2170
01:19:12,169 --> 01:19:10,260
um and and in many different well you

2171
01:19:14,209 --> 01:19:12,179
know whether it's you know through

2172
01:19:16,729 --> 01:19:14,219
through the geometry or the placement on

2173
01:19:18,649 --> 01:19:16,739
the landscape or you know whether it's

2174
01:19:20,930 --> 01:19:18,659
it's through all the various High

2175
01:19:26,050 --> 01:19:20,940
strangeness phenomena that's seen in and

2176
01:19:30,290 --> 01:19:28,729
UAP encounters as well that it's a

2177
01:19:32,630 --> 01:19:30,300
definite

2178
01:19:35,649 --> 01:19:32,640
um attempt at some kind of communication

2179
01:19:40,370 --> 01:19:38,390
I was going to ask would you say simply

2180
01:19:42,649 --> 01:19:40,380
an elastic cat in the same question and

2181
01:19:44,689 --> 01:19:42,659
I'm going to be abrupt and ask you for a

2182
01:19:47,090 --> 01:19:44,699
yes or no if someone came to you and

2183
01:19:48,530 --> 01:19:47,100
said again member of the public dipping

2184
01:19:51,169 --> 01:19:48,540
their toe into the crop circle

2185
01:19:54,530 --> 01:19:51,179
conversation are aliens making these

2186
01:19:56,330 --> 01:19:54,540
crop circles as your answer yes or is it

2187
01:19:59,330 --> 01:19:56,340
no or can you even answer with her yes

2188
01:20:01,550 --> 01:19:59,340
or no no I honestly don't know it's a

2189
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:01,560
high degree of you know possibility that

2190
01:20:04,910 --> 01:20:03,239
it's connected to the UFO phenomenon we

2191
01:20:07,610 --> 01:20:04,920
can go over the reasons for that but

2192
01:20:08,930 --> 01:20:07,620
ultimately we we don't really know for

2193
01:20:10,729 --> 01:20:08,940
sure

2194
01:20:12,770 --> 01:20:10,739
um that's that's that would be my answer

2195
01:20:14,990 --> 01:20:12,780
yes and I think I would I would concur

2196
01:20:16,729 --> 01:20:15,000
with that because we really we really

2197
01:20:18,169 --> 01:20:16,739
don't know what's I mean just as much as

2198
01:20:20,630 --> 01:20:18,179
we really don't know what's behind the

2199
01:20:22,250 --> 01:20:20,640
UAP phenomenon itself we certainly don't

2200
01:20:23,990 --> 01:20:22,260
we're in we're in exactly the same

2201
01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:24,000
position with this

2202
01:20:28,130 --> 01:20:26,760
no that's fair um Gary I'll come to you

2203
01:20:29,689 --> 01:20:28,140
for the next question then and it's

2204
01:20:32,090 --> 01:20:29,699
something we touched on before but I'll

2205
01:20:33,950 --> 01:20:32,100
expand on it from Kendra

2206
01:20:36,050 --> 01:20:33,960
um she would like to know if based on

2207
01:20:37,729 --> 01:20:36,060
your research the rate of crop circles

2208
01:20:40,130 --> 01:20:37,739
have dropped since they were first

2209
01:20:41,110 --> 01:20:40,140
documented Karen mentioned it seemed to

2210
01:20:43,850 --> 01:20:41,120
Peak around

2211
01:20:45,410 --> 01:20:43,860
2009-2010 and has maybe dwindled a

2212
01:20:48,649 --> 01:20:45,420
little since then do you think that's

2213
01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:48,659
because of their reported less because

2214
01:20:53,810 --> 01:20:51,540
of any kind of stigma or is it the

2215
01:20:55,970 --> 01:20:53,820
actual number of them appearing seem to

2216
01:20:57,770 --> 01:20:55,980
have reduced

2217
01:20:59,630 --> 01:20:57,780
um the number of them does seem to have

2218
01:21:02,030 --> 01:20:59,640
been reduced definitely

2219
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:02,040
um since around 2012 I would say just

2220
01:21:05,630 --> 01:21:03,600
after that they've started to decline

2221
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,640
although as Karen mentioned earlier

2222
01:21:11,149 --> 01:21:08,400
excuse me the quality of the ones that

2223
01:21:13,729 --> 01:21:11,159
do appear still you know maintain quite

2224
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:13,739
a high level of complexity and all the

2225
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:14,880
other things that we've discussed

2226
01:21:18,770 --> 01:21:16,800
earlier

2227
01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:18,780
um but but let's not forget you know

2228
01:21:23,630 --> 01:21:21,360
during the hey days of crop circles

2229
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:23,640
we're not just talking one that appears

2230
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:25,920
on a Monday night and then two weeks on

2231
01:21:30,169 --> 01:21:27,600
the following Tuesday we might get

2232
01:21:31,669 --> 01:21:30,179
another one there are occasions many

2233
01:21:33,649 --> 01:21:31,679
occasions if you care to look back

2234
01:21:36,350 --> 01:21:33,659
through the records where there are

2235
01:21:39,470 --> 01:21:36,360
multiple crop circles over several

2236
01:21:41,330 --> 01:21:39,480
nights consecutively and so you know you

2237
01:21:44,209 --> 01:21:41,340
might when I used to visit them back

2238
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:44,219
between 1907 and 2007. I I really

2239
01:21:48,290 --> 01:21:46,080
remember coming over from Cardiff really

2240
01:21:50,209 --> 01:21:48,300
early and and there and oh there were

2241
01:21:52,610 --> 01:21:50,219
five that have just been reported and

2242
01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:52,620
they go well I can't even get round five

2243
01:21:55,850 --> 01:21:54,360
and walk around them and take a good

2244
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:55,860
invest you know a good look at them in

2245
01:21:59,750 --> 01:21:58,080
in a day I need to be here for several

2246
01:22:01,250 --> 01:21:59,760
days just to cover and then you wake up

2247
01:22:02,870 --> 01:22:01,260
the next day and there's another three

2248
01:22:05,810 --> 01:22:02,880
and then four the next day and you're

2249
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:05,820
like hang on a minute on on 777 when

2250
01:22:10,850 --> 01:22:07,440
that huge crop circle appeared in front

2251
01:22:13,310 --> 01:22:10,860
of us mysteriously there were seven crop

2252
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:13,320
circles that night

2253
01:22:19,010 --> 01:22:16,800
reported so so am I am I to believe that

2254
01:22:20,570 --> 01:22:19,020
you know seven mysterious teams of x

2255
01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:20,580
amount of people went out on the same

2256
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,320
night as they had done over the years

2257
01:22:26,030 --> 01:22:24,239
I'm not I'm not actually sure what the

2258
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:26,040
record for numbering of appearing in one

2259
01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:28,260
night Karen is do you no I'm afraid I

2260
01:22:31,669 --> 01:22:29,219
don't

2261
01:22:32,510 --> 01:22:31,679
no but but I can tell you that you know

2262
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:32,520
you're going to just look through

2263
01:22:38,750 --> 01:22:36,000
Karen's archives on her website

2264
01:22:40,669 --> 01:22:38,760
um you you will find that there are

2265
01:22:41,930 --> 01:22:40,679
numbers and numbers of them are appeared

2266
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,940
on the same night and then the next

2267
01:22:44,090 --> 01:22:43,199
night the next night the next night and

2268
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:44,100
you're like well hang on a minute this

2269
01:22:50,270 --> 01:22:47,520
is this is a serious workload

2270
01:22:52,790 --> 01:22:50,280
so there's a question from Shane asks

2271
01:22:55,970 --> 01:22:52,800
there's a famous video of uh orbs

2272
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:55,980
creating a crop circle that was um

2273
01:23:00,709 --> 01:22:58,080
they've used about the veracity of the

2274
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,719
Nat Geo National Geographic debunking of

2275
01:23:03,890 --> 01:23:01,920
that video

2276
01:23:05,390 --> 01:23:03,900
um have you seen that yeah and again

2277
01:23:08,350 --> 01:23:05,400
what do you think of those types of

2278
01:23:11,090 --> 01:23:08,360
videos that seem to show very clearly

2279
01:23:13,610 --> 01:23:11,100
orbs for example creating crop circles

2280
01:23:15,169 --> 01:23:13,620
is there anything caught on camera that

2281
01:23:16,790 --> 01:23:15,179
you would look at and say that is 100

2282
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:16,800
genuine

2283
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:18,239
well

2284
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,360
we'll get to the the um the Nat Geo

2285
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:24,000
video in just a second but

2286
01:23:28,490 --> 01:23:26,400
my husband Steve Alexander

2287
01:23:32,810 --> 01:23:28,500
um filmed a ball of light in a field

2288
01:23:33,770 --> 01:23:32,820
with a crop circle back in 1990

2289
01:23:36,169 --> 01:23:33,780
um and

2290
01:23:37,669 --> 01:23:36,179
um he was with his his then wife at the

2291
01:23:39,229 --> 01:23:37,679
time

2292
01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:39,239
um and the crop circle

2293
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,920
um was in the field below him it was up

2294
01:23:44,630 --> 01:23:42,239
on a hill

2295
01:23:46,669 --> 01:23:44,640
um and he could see this what looked

2296
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:46,679
like a small ball of Light It was kind

2297
01:23:51,950 --> 01:23:48,560
of glinting and flashing in the sunlight

2298
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:51,960
it kind of moved around the the field a

2299
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,199
little bit it it dipped down into the

2300
01:23:59,630 --> 01:23:57,120
crop for a little while it came back up

2301
01:24:02,510 --> 01:23:59,640
again and eventually it flew off into

2302
01:24:06,169 --> 01:24:02,520
the distance and as it did so it flew

2303
01:24:08,030 --> 01:24:06,179
over the top of a farm worker in a

2304
01:24:10,490 --> 01:24:08,040
tractor who was turning the field he was

2305
01:24:12,950 --> 01:24:10,500
turning the crop um the soil

2306
01:24:15,290 --> 01:24:12,960
as this thing went over he saw it he

2307
01:24:18,890 --> 01:24:15,300
said it was the sun it was the size of a

2308
01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:18,900
beach ball it was like a bright

2309
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:20,760
um light it didn't go far over his head

2310
01:24:25,310 --> 01:24:22,860
at all as it went over the engine of his

2311
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:25,320
track to cut out

2312
01:24:31,130 --> 01:24:28,260
um and he said he kind of had this

2313
01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:31,140
moment where whereas it went over

2314
01:24:36,410 --> 01:24:34,260
everything just stopped and he couldn't

2315
01:24:38,510 --> 01:24:36,420
he couldn't quite remember why he'd

2316
01:24:40,130 --> 01:24:38,520
stopped or what what was happening but

2317
01:24:41,810 --> 01:24:40,140
then this thing kind of went right up

2318
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:41,820
into the air where you couldn't see it

2319
01:24:47,090 --> 01:24:44,280
on the camera anymore and then his

2320
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:47,100
engine started up again and he was able

2321
01:24:52,250 --> 01:24:50,159
to carry on doing what he was doing

2322
01:24:55,130 --> 01:24:52,260
um and I can tell you that video is

2323
01:24:57,470 --> 01:24:55,140
absolutely 100 genuine it's never been

2324
01:24:59,810 --> 01:24:57,480
messed about with he's had it um

2325
01:25:01,550 --> 01:24:59,820
analyzed several times

2326
01:25:03,290 --> 01:25:01,560
um it's you know again you know people

2327
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:03,300
have been able to show that it's it's

2328
01:25:05,930 --> 01:25:04,320
it's

2329
01:25:08,810 --> 01:25:05,940
um not been interfered with in any way

2330
01:25:11,689 --> 01:25:08,820
as to what it is I don't know and people

2331
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:11,699
have said oh maybe it's a bird or

2332
01:25:15,229 --> 01:25:13,800
um or whatever but um it certainly

2333
01:25:17,570 --> 01:25:15,239
wasn't a bird that the tractor driver

2334
01:25:19,130 --> 01:25:17,580
saw when it went over his head and

2335
01:25:22,850 --> 01:25:19,140
certainly a bird wouldn't cut your

2336
01:25:24,649 --> 01:25:22,860
tractor engine out so that is it the the

2337
01:25:26,330 --> 01:25:24,659
ball of light didn't make the crop

2338
01:25:35,169 --> 01:25:26,340
circle the crop circle was already there

2339
01:25:39,110 --> 01:25:37,370
now and

2340
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:39,120
um and again you know there were many

2341
01:25:43,130 --> 01:25:41,280
synchronicities that led to being that

2342
01:25:46,250 --> 01:25:43,140
there that day at that time the Camry

2343
01:25:49,070 --> 01:25:46,260
was operating wasn't even his own so you

2344
01:25:52,790 --> 01:25:49,080
know there was all that as well to it

2345
01:25:55,910 --> 01:25:52,800
um but the the piece that was shown it

2346
01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:55,920
on the Nat Geo that was um filmed I

2347
01:26:01,070 --> 01:25:57,600
think in

2348
01:26:02,750 --> 01:26:01,080
was it 1996 wasn't it I think at a place

2349
01:26:04,850 --> 01:26:02,760
called yeah 96 at a place called

2350
01:26:06,830 --> 01:26:04,860
Oliver's Castle in Wiltshire and again

2351
01:26:08,750 --> 01:26:06,840
it was known for

2352
01:26:10,970 --> 01:26:08,760
um crop circles the crop circle itself

2353
01:26:12,169 --> 01:26:10,980
was definitely there I know because I

2354
01:26:13,729 --> 01:26:12,179
went in it

2355
01:26:16,610 --> 01:26:13,739
um so the crop circle pilot is

2356
01:26:18,169 --> 01:26:16,620
definitely there the video is slightly

2357
01:26:20,689 --> 01:26:18,179
controversial

2358
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,699
um for many reasons and there are

2359
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:22,800
researchers that would say that they

2360
01:26:27,169 --> 01:26:24,480
definitely felt it was something real

2361
01:26:28,370 --> 01:26:27,179
there are others that are not so sure

2362
01:26:30,290 --> 01:26:28,380
um for me

2363
01:26:32,810 --> 01:26:30,300
a kind of

2364
01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:32,820
I'm not sure about it

2365
01:26:36,410 --> 01:26:34,199
um and

2366
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:36,420
um I guess I'm not sure because the

2367
01:26:42,890 --> 01:26:39,360
person who took it has never really sort

2368
01:26:45,290 --> 01:26:42,900
of come forward publicly to say I think

2369
01:26:48,250 --> 01:26:45,300
he did for a while he came forward for a

2370
01:26:51,649 --> 01:26:48,260
while and said yes I took this

2371
01:26:54,770 --> 01:26:51,659
but there's just something that holds me

2372
01:26:56,629 --> 01:26:54,780
I'm just not quite satisfied about it

2373
01:26:59,149 --> 01:26:56,639
but I understand that a lot of other

2374
01:27:02,390 --> 01:26:59,159
people are and and I absolutely respect

2375
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:02,400
that so um so I'm kind of a little bit

2376
01:27:06,530 --> 01:27:04,260
unsure about that but but

2377
01:27:09,229 --> 01:27:06,540
what I do like about it is that it does

2378
01:27:11,689 --> 01:27:09,239
kind of show what a lot of people which

2379
01:27:13,550 --> 01:27:11,699
is what a lot of people think how a crop

2380
01:27:15,229 --> 01:27:13,560
circle might be made by balls of light

2381
01:27:17,930 --> 01:27:15,239
so that it's interesting from that point

2382
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:17,940
of view but I I mean Gary might have a

2383
01:27:25,970 --> 01:27:24,110
um no I pretty much Echo the same as

2384
01:27:27,890 --> 01:27:25,980
Karen I mean it's such a shame that we

2385
01:27:29,330 --> 01:27:27,900
were never able I was never able to meet

2386
01:27:31,610 --> 01:27:29,340
up with John Whaley I know people that

2387
01:27:33,950 --> 01:27:31,620
did and they saw him after the event and

2388
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:33,960
as many people described to me the kind

2389
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:35,760
of pressure he came under as a young 19

2390
01:27:40,310 --> 01:27:38,100
year old who got this incredible footage

2391
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:40,320
and he didn't know how to handle it and

2392
01:27:45,050 --> 01:27:42,060
I can understand all of those things

2393
01:27:46,970 --> 01:27:45,060
they all seem perfectly reasonable to me

2394
01:27:50,330 --> 01:27:46,980
um there are a number of factors which

2395
01:27:52,189 --> 01:27:50,340
which give me cause to pause just like

2396
01:27:54,290 --> 01:27:52,199
like Karen mentioned and also a number

2397
01:27:56,090 --> 01:27:54,300
of factors which made me think well you

2398
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,100
know how did they do this because we're

2399
01:28:01,550 --> 01:27:59,280
talking 1996 technology

2400
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:01,560
and like with Karen's not you know her

2401
01:28:06,830 --> 01:28:03,840
husband's experience in in 1990s it's

2402
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,840
old camera footage which is nowadays if

2403
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:08,400
we produce something now I could not

2404
01:28:11,390 --> 01:28:09,600
probably knock something up that would

2405
01:28:13,669 --> 01:28:11,400
be very good in in apple motion you know

2406
01:28:16,310 --> 01:28:13,679
it's it's it's laptop stuff now but back

2407
01:28:19,070 --> 01:28:16,320
in 1996 not so easy

2408
01:28:22,189 --> 01:28:19,080
and you know I know that the footage was

2409
01:28:24,950 --> 01:28:22,199
a lot longer than the the original

2410
01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:24,960
footage than what we see on YouTube the

2411
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,760
original footage was went on for quite

2412
01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:28,320
some time

2413
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:30,239
um and there's a whole story behind how

2414
01:28:34,370 --> 01:28:33,120
that went missing and so on and so forth

2415
01:28:34,970 --> 01:28:34,380
but

2416
01:28:37,010 --> 01:28:34,980
um

2417
01:28:39,290 --> 01:28:37,020
the fact that the footage was going the

2418
01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:39,300
the camera was handheld and it was going

2419
01:28:43,250 --> 01:28:41,699
up and down and I watched the couple of

2420
01:28:44,689 --> 01:28:43,260
laboratory analysis of it where it was

2421
01:28:46,970 --> 01:28:44,699
sent off and they and they sort of

2422
01:28:49,310 --> 01:28:46,980
mapped it frame by frame at 25 frames a

2423
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,320
second and these balls maintained their

2424
01:28:52,729 --> 01:28:51,600
height they showed no signs of

2425
01:28:54,590 --> 01:28:52,739
of of

2426
01:28:56,990 --> 01:28:54,600
um of shadowing or casting or anything

2427
01:28:58,669 --> 01:28:57,000
that would indicate that they were they

2428
01:29:00,050 --> 01:28:58,679
were frauds and because the camera was

2429
01:29:01,669 --> 01:29:00,060
going up and down and you could see the

2430
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:01,679
Horizon moving that would be very

2431
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:05,520
difficult to do in the time frame that

2432
01:29:08,689 --> 01:29:07,440
this man produced this evidence the

2433
01:29:09,890 --> 01:29:08,699
following morning because we know the

2434
01:29:12,410 --> 01:29:09,900
crop circle wasn't there the night

2435
01:29:14,030 --> 01:29:12,420
before so we've got a time frame where

2436
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:14,040
we can say that okay that had to have

2437
01:29:18,290 --> 01:29:16,560
happened in that window and I struggle

2438
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:18,300
and also there was a there was a

2439
01:29:23,090 --> 01:29:20,159
filmmaker a Norwegian filmmaker called

2440
01:29:26,209 --> 01:29:23,100
Terry toffness who when he made a film

2441
01:29:29,830 --> 01:29:26,219
back in the 90s uh no two early 2000s uh

2442
01:29:33,530 --> 01:29:29,840
he consulted some Disney animators

2443
01:29:35,629 --> 01:29:33,540
and yeah I think this was 2004 and he

2444
01:29:37,550 --> 01:29:35,639
said okay what would it take if you knew

2445
01:29:38,990 --> 01:29:37,560
with all your with all your gear you

2446
01:29:40,490 --> 01:29:39,000
know your professional gear that you

2447
01:29:42,530 --> 01:29:40,500
make Mickey Mouse out of and all the

2448
01:29:44,810 --> 01:29:42,540
rest of it what would it take for you to

2449
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,820
to do this for me and and they said well

2450
01:29:48,770 --> 01:29:46,560
maybe a couple of weeks but there's

2451
01:29:50,689 --> 01:29:48,780
issues with this and issues with that as

2452
01:29:51,470 --> 01:29:50,699
I said now it would be easy but but back

2453
01:29:53,330 --> 01:29:51,480
then

2454
01:29:56,030 --> 01:29:53,340
that's what makes me go like that you

2455
01:29:57,890 --> 01:29:56,040
know but as I said earlier I don't pin

2456
01:29:58,910 --> 01:29:57,900
the whole thing on one formation you

2457
01:30:00,530 --> 01:29:58,920
know

2458
01:30:02,510 --> 01:30:00,540
um there's a lot of them and and we've

2459
01:30:05,330 --> 01:30:02,520
got a lot to talk about really when we

2460
01:30:08,390 --> 01:30:05,340
consider the ones that that um

2461
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:08,400
that that really do defy any kind of

2462
01:30:12,770 --> 01:30:10,320
rational logic

2463
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:12,780
and a final question from uh gnosis long

2464
01:30:16,910 --> 01:30:15,360
time listener and contributor uh my late

2465
01:30:19,610 --> 01:30:16,920
grandfather was a farmer in

2466
01:30:22,010 --> 01:30:19,620
Cambridgeshire during the 1950s and 60s

2467
01:30:23,930 --> 01:30:22,020
when crop Cycles became mainstream in

2468
01:30:26,209 --> 01:30:23,940
the 80s he claimed to have seen a few of

2469
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:26,219
them over the years however there were

2470
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:28,080
always just a singular Circle rather

2471
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:30,719
than patterns and never very large they

2472
01:30:35,209 --> 01:30:33,120
were always put down to swirling winds

2473
01:30:37,610 --> 01:30:35,219
do any historical records or photos

2474
01:30:39,890 --> 01:30:37,620
exist from the mid 20th century on this

2475
01:30:41,870 --> 01:30:39,900
phenomenon so yes so that was the book

2476
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:41,880
we're talking about which

2477
01:30:46,310 --> 01:30:44,460
um I think is called a is it um

2478
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:46,320
something like a short history of crop

2479
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:49,679
circles or something by by Terry Wilson

2480
01:30:53,209 --> 01:30:51,600
um and as I said the physical copies are

2481
01:30:55,729 --> 01:30:53,219
a bit hard to get but you can get it on

2482
01:30:56,870 --> 01:30:55,739
a on an electronic copy from Amazon and

2483
01:30:59,510 --> 01:30:56,880
it's well worth to read there's some

2484
01:31:01,729 --> 01:30:59,520
good photos in there and and some nice

2485
01:31:03,110 --> 01:31:01,739
historical stories so yes the answer is

2486
01:31:05,689 --> 01:31:03,120
yes basically

2487
01:31:07,010 --> 01:31:05,699
yeah I remember John Martin on some of

2488
01:31:08,450 --> 01:31:07,020
the early researchers also telling me

2489
01:31:12,050 --> 01:31:08,460
that they took flights in those early

2490
01:31:14,030 --> 01:31:12,060
days and I'm I'm really vividly John

2491
01:31:15,649 --> 01:31:14,040
Martin telling me that he flew one day

2492
01:31:17,629 --> 01:31:15,659
and there was he said it was like a

2493
01:31:19,310 --> 01:31:17,639
paintbrush had been flicked across the

2494
01:31:22,729 --> 01:31:19,320
landscape and there were just these

2495
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:22,739
random Circles of sizes across Fields

2496
01:31:28,010 --> 01:31:25,199
many fields too many of them for people

2497
01:31:29,570 --> 01:31:28,020
to just go out and do and and there was

2498
01:31:31,070 --> 01:31:29,580
no kind of pattern to them that he could

2499
01:31:33,290 --> 01:31:31,080
discern but he was just like someone

2500
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:33,300
something or something other was doing

2501
01:31:37,850 --> 01:31:35,760
it for the fun of it just to

2502
01:31:39,229 --> 01:31:37,860
just there's there's a kind of humor to

2503
01:31:41,570 --> 01:31:39,239
it in some ways that we've all

2504
01:31:44,209 --> 01:31:41,580
experienced but yes and so he said there

2505
01:31:46,729 --> 01:31:44,219
just seemed no reason for you know that

2506
01:31:49,310 --> 01:31:46,739
many simple circles it's

2507
01:31:50,689 --> 01:31:49,320
something that he witnessed so I I think

2508
01:31:53,149 --> 01:31:50,699
that's how they got our attention really

2509
01:31:54,830 --> 01:31:53,159
even if my teacher the guy who took me

2510
01:31:56,990 --> 01:31:54,840
to the crop circle said you know it's

2511
01:31:58,790 --> 01:31:57,000
like we were being reminded again to go

2512
01:32:00,709 --> 01:31:58,800
back in the past remember one remember

2513
01:32:02,990 --> 01:32:00,719
how you looked at the number one you

2514
01:32:04,550 --> 01:32:03,000
know it's not just about quantities it's

2515
01:32:05,990 --> 01:32:04,560
about qualities and we want we want to

2516
01:32:07,610 --> 01:32:06,000
take you back to the beginning and so

2517
01:32:09,050 --> 01:32:07,620
the early circles were ones and then

2518
01:32:10,669 --> 01:32:09,060
once we've paid attention they turned

2519
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:10,679
into two circles and then three and then

2520
01:32:15,290 --> 01:32:12,719
we had this Evolution that took us on a

2521
01:32:17,510 --> 01:32:15,300
journey of how numbers start to play

2522
01:32:20,689 --> 01:32:17,520
together in geometric forms but but it

2523
01:32:22,370 --> 01:32:20,699
all started with the basics

2524
01:32:25,729 --> 01:32:22,380
let me finish with a question from

2525
01:32:28,129 --> 01:32:25,739
myself then for both of you where do you

2526
01:32:31,610 --> 01:32:28,139
see crop circles fitting into the

2527
01:32:33,709 --> 01:32:31,620
overall UFO phenomenon mystery you know

2528
01:32:35,330 --> 01:32:33,719
for someone who's an avid follower of

2529
01:32:37,129 --> 01:32:35,340
the UFO topic and there's people who

2530
01:32:39,290 --> 01:32:37,139
listen to this who tell me they've been

2531
01:32:41,570 --> 01:32:39,300
into the subject for 50 or 60 years and

2532
01:32:43,129 --> 01:32:41,580
listened to the podcast and others who

2533
01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:43,139
literally in the last couple of months

2534
01:32:48,350 --> 01:32:46,199
heard a pilot on Joe Rogan and went

2535
01:32:50,750 --> 01:32:48,360
looking for UFO stuff and came across

2536
01:32:52,850 --> 01:32:50,760
the podcast which is great and where

2537
01:32:54,649 --> 01:32:52,860
does the crop circle mystery for you fit

2538
01:32:57,229 --> 01:32:54,659
into the UFO topic

2539
01:33:00,410 --> 01:32:57,239
I think because because it's very

2540
01:33:02,930 --> 01:33:00,420
possible that we are dealing with

2541
01:33:06,050 --> 01:33:02,940
um a a

2542
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,060
unknown intelligence operating through

2543
01:33:12,590 --> 01:33:08,880
through the phenomenon and and and again

2544
01:33:14,770 --> 01:33:12,600
going back to that idea that that to me

2545
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:14,780
all this is about

2546
01:33:19,430 --> 01:33:17,520
you know the the evolution of human

2547
01:33:21,290 --> 01:33:19,440
consciousness if you like that we're

2548
01:33:24,709 --> 01:33:21,300
beginning to realize

2549
01:33:27,350 --> 01:33:24,719
that that the UFO the crop circles the

2550
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:27,360
Paranormal in general if you like are

2551
01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:30,000
all signs and symbols showing us that we

2552
01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:33,300
belong to this greater reality and you

2553
01:33:37,250 --> 01:33:35,280
know like with the UAP subject now we're

2554
01:33:39,590 --> 01:33:37,260
just beginning to you know like the

2555
01:33:40,490 --> 01:33:39,600
upgrades in the radar have shown all

2556
01:33:42,770 --> 01:33:40,500
these

2557
01:33:45,229 --> 01:33:42,780
um new things in the sky that we didn't

2558
01:33:46,790 --> 01:33:45,239
perhaps know were there I think that's

2559
01:33:49,430 --> 01:33:46,800
kind of what's happening on the human

2560
01:33:51,590 --> 01:33:49,440
level it's like a you know that these

2561
01:33:55,610 --> 01:33:51,600
experiences kind of Pierce our reality

2562
01:33:58,669 --> 01:33:55,620
and then then a curtain is drawn back

2563
01:34:02,149 --> 01:33:58,679
um and maybe in 10 10 years time maybe

2564
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:02,159
this will just be one of these what I I

2565
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,560
like to call it you know initiate it or

2566
01:34:09,530 --> 01:34:07,199
transformational phenomena that allow

2567
01:34:11,330 --> 01:34:09,540
human beings to finally realize that we

2568
01:34:13,370 --> 01:34:11,340
are part of this greater reality and

2569
01:34:16,070 --> 01:34:13,380
that there are intelligence is out there

2570
01:34:18,350 --> 01:34:16,080
that want to communicate with us so

2571
01:34:21,709 --> 01:34:18,360
that's kind of where how I see it

2572
01:34:24,649 --> 01:34:21,719
fitting in and perhaps where is it go

2573
01:34:26,870 --> 01:34:24,659
yeah Gary much the same really I mean I

2574
01:34:29,209 --> 01:34:26,880
think I think that um there's so many

2575
01:34:31,129 --> 01:34:29,219
possibilities but consciousness

2576
01:34:32,570 --> 01:34:31,139
can be looked at as a technology in some

2577
01:34:35,810 --> 01:34:32,580
ways and maybe maybe what we're looking

2578
01:34:38,450 --> 01:34:35,820
at with the uaps is you know um not so

2579
01:34:40,310 --> 01:34:38,460
much of an engineering technology but it

2580
01:34:43,189 --> 01:34:40,320
may be something that's engineered and

2581
01:34:45,050 --> 01:34:43,199
also combined with a hidden unknown part

2582
01:34:46,669 --> 01:34:45,060
of Consciousness that we we currently

2583
01:34:49,010 --> 01:34:46,679
don't know about and we may be being

2584
01:34:51,229 --> 01:34:49,020
shown how we can

2585
01:34:53,330 --> 01:34:51,239
you know begin to develop ourselves and

2586
01:34:55,990 --> 01:34:53,340
our own Consciousness so that we can um

2587
01:34:57,890 --> 01:34:56,000
expand that for one sort of a better

2588
01:34:59,209 --> 01:34:57,900
non-cliched word but expand our

2589
01:35:01,550 --> 01:34:59,219
Consciousness in a way that we can

2590
01:35:04,729 --> 01:35:01,560
become a part of this bigger community

2591
01:35:06,590 --> 01:35:04,739
of of intelligences

2592
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:06,600
um I I always remember Alan Brown saying

2593
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:09,840
you know when you when he discovered the

2594
01:35:13,910 --> 01:35:12,000
um the hidden squared circles in crop

2595
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:13,920
circles he said

2596
01:35:17,450 --> 01:35:15,600
when you when you have something that's

2597
01:35:19,910 --> 01:35:17,460
quite complicated and many people have

2598
01:35:21,649 --> 01:35:19,920
gone diving into complexity to try and

2599
01:35:23,810 --> 01:35:21,659
find solutions to that puzzle over the

2600
01:35:25,729 --> 01:35:23,820
years when you find that that solution

2601
01:35:28,250 --> 01:35:25,739
has been given to us with five simple

2602
01:35:29,629 --> 01:35:28,260
circles what the quim tubelets that we

2603
01:35:31,970 --> 01:35:29,639
call them

2604
01:35:34,370 --> 01:35:31,980
um in so many variations that these

2605
01:35:35,570 --> 01:35:34,380
Solutions just pop out and pop out he

2606
01:35:37,729 --> 01:35:35,580
said that when you when you get

2607
01:35:40,669 --> 01:35:37,739
something that's what you think to be

2608
01:35:42,290 --> 01:35:40,679
what we think to be very complicated but

2609
01:35:44,030 --> 01:35:42,300
it but the solution is actually really

2610
01:35:46,250 --> 01:35:44,040
really simple that children could

2611
01:35:47,870 --> 01:35:46,260
understand it then you're really dealing

2612
01:35:49,250 --> 01:35:47,880
with a higher intelligence because any

2613
01:35:50,930 --> 01:35:49,260
intelligence that can take something

2614
01:35:54,050 --> 01:35:50,940
which is complicated and make it really

2615
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:54,060
really simple is is in my definition

2616
01:35:59,090 --> 01:35:56,880
well I learned from Alan you know a high

2617
01:36:01,250 --> 01:35:59,100
intelligence and so I think I think that

2618
01:36:03,649 --> 01:36:01,260
you know we're looking at a an

2619
01:36:06,350 --> 01:36:03,659
intelligence that's that's already

2620
01:36:08,510 --> 01:36:06,360
evolved and we're on the cusp of that

2621
01:36:09,950 --> 01:36:08,520
Evolution quite possibly and there are

2622
01:36:11,390 --> 01:36:09,960
lots of reasons to think about that with

2623
01:36:14,030 --> 01:36:11,400
the state of what we're doing to each

2624
01:36:16,189 --> 01:36:14,040
other in the world right now and so on

2625
01:36:18,290 --> 01:36:16,199
um that I remember Karen said years ago

2626
01:36:19,970 --> 01:36:18,300
is something that really really stayed

2627
01:36:21,590 --> 01:36:19,980
with me when she said it's all that crop

2628
01:36:23,450 --> 01:36:21,600
circle is almost like cards on the table

2629
01:36:26,209 --> 01:36:23,460
like a therapy lesson that we're being

2630
01:36:28,010 --> 01:36:26,219
shown maybe where our ancestors were we

2631
01:36:30,410 --> 01:36:28,020
built the pyramids and the stone circles

2632
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:30,420
and stuff and their understanding of

2633
01:36:33,770 --> 01:36:32,400
Consciousness in a different way and a

2634
01:36:35,689 --> 01:36:33,780
different technology that we can't

2635
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:35,699
understand now that's maybe responsible

2636
01:36:38,090 --> 01:36:36,960
for building some of these monuments

2637
01:36:40,370 --> 01:36:38,100
that we can't understand from an

2638
01:36:42,229 --> 01:36:40,380
engineering perspective

2639
01:36:44,510 --> 01:36:42,239
um that we've been reminded you know

2640
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:44,520
you've been given you've been given some

2641
01:36:48,470 --> 01:36:46,800
rope as a species and you've gone down

2642
01:36:51,290 --> 01:36:48,480
the road with it this this is where you

2643
01:36:52,669 --> 01:36:51,300
are now this is where you came from and

2644
01:36:54,649 --> 01:36:52,679
you could now when you've got those

2645
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:54,659
cards on the table as Karen brilliantly

2646
01:36:58,490 --> 01:36:56,940
said years ago making form decisions

2647
01:37:01,250 --> 01:36:58,500
about where you want to go in the future

2648
01:37:03,470 --> 01:37:01,260
and if a part of that is developing our

2649
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:03,480
Consciousness I believe that the crop

2650
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:06,000
circles may be a blueprint and that in

2651
01:37:09,770 --> 01:37:07,679
years to come

2652
01:37:11,870 --> 01:37:09,780
um you know people might be studying

2653
01:37:13,610 --> 01:37:11,880
them in universities and pulling even

2654
01:37:15,229 --> 01:37:13,620
more things out of them that we've

2655
01:37:17,510 --> 01:37:15,239
because we've we've had limited

2656
01:37:20,270 --> 01:37:17,520
resources and we've we've suffered

2657
01:37:22,010 --> 01:37:20,280
painfully over the years to just try and

2658
01:37:24,290 --> 01:37:22,020
get a little bit of an understanding and

2659
01:37:26,330 --> 01:37:24,300
and and you're very aware when you've

2660
01:37:29,030 --> 01:37:26,340
done that that there's a whole wealth of

2661
01:37:30,770 --> 01:37:29,040
stuff still to be unpicked from these

2662
01:37:32,629 --> 01:37:30,780
formations that we just haven't come

2663
01:37:34,910 --> 01:37:32,639
across yet so

2664
01:37:37,490 --> 01:37:34,920
so I think that when when we do finally

2665
01:37:40,010 --> 01:37:37,500
accept as we are beginning to slowly now

2666
01:37:41,689 --> 01:37:40,020
that there are things flying around in

2667
01:37:44,270 --> 01:37:41,699
the sky and that there are you know

2668
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,280
things we can't explain that the crop

2669
01:37:48,350 --> 01:37:46,320
circles in the uaps and maybe lots of

2670
01:37:51,050 --> 01:37:48,360
other Mysteries as well that have like

2671
01:37:52,669 --> 01:37:51,060
Jeffrey was published about in

2672
01:37:55,189 --> 01:37:52,679
his wonderful books you know where we'll

2673
01:37:57,590 --> 01:37:55,199
begin to unpick these mysteries of

2674
01:38:00,110 --> 01:37:57,600
of um of what it is to be human and and

2675
01:38:01,550 --> 01:38:00,120
the crop circles will probably be some

2676
01:38:03,410 --> 01:38:01,560
kind of syllabus for us to maybe

2677
01:38:05,450 --> 01:38:03,420
understand some of that stuff even more

2678
01:38:07,669 --> 01:38:05,460
that's what I think

2679
01:38:09,530 --> 01:38:07,679
well how can people find you both uh

2680
01:38:11,450 --> 01:38:09,540
online social media how could they get

2681
01:38:15,169 --> 01:38:11,460
in touch and find your work

2682
01:38:15,179 --> 01:38:18,410
our website which is

2683
01:38:25,790 --> 01:38:22,910
Brewery temples dot Co dot UK

2684
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:25,800
um I don't do a lot of social media

2685
01:38:29,510 --> 01:38:28,080
um we have an Instagram page

2686
01:38:31,250 --> 01:38:29,520
um where you can you can look up

2687
01:38:34,430 --> 01:38:31,260
temporary temples you'll find us where

2688
01:38:36,530 --> 01:38:34,440
we put up pictures of the crop circles

2689
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:36,540
um I do a little bit on Twitter that's

2690
01:38:40,610 --> 01:38:38,400
where I know you from Andy

2691
01:38:43,129 --> 01:38:40,620
um um but not too much else I actually

2692
01:38:45,050 --> 01:38:43,139
find it a real distraction sometimes but

2693
01:38:47,149 --> 01:38:45,060
the website is the best it's the

2694
01:38:49,729 --> 01:38:47,159
website's completely free there is a

2695
01:38:52,129 --> 01:38:49,739
image Library there that starts in 1994

2696
01:38:54,110 --> 01:38:52,139
goes right through to the present day

2697
01:38:56,810 --> 01:38:54,120
you can look at hundreds and hundreds of

2698
01:38:59,870 --> 01:38:56,820
crop circles and have a have a great

2699
01:39:01,970 --> 01:38:59,880
time doing that um and um and read some

2700
01:39:03,290 --> 01:39:01,980
of the stuff that I've been writing um

2701
01:39:07,250 --> 01:39:03,300
about some of the circles that's been

2702
01:39:11,209 --> 01:39:09,890
daddy oh I don't have a website I just

2703
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:11,219
do it through social media through

2704
01:39:14,870 --> 01:39:12,719
Facebook there's a private group called

2705
01:39:16,430 --> 01:39:14,880
Against the Grain on Facebook anybody

2706
01:39:17,930 --> 01:39:16,440
can come and join

2707
01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:17,940
um I keep it sort of a closed group and

2708
01:39:21,890 --> 01:39:20,400
accept people because that's I'm not a

2709
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:21,900
great big one for going on social media

2710
01:39:25,550 --> 01:39:23,760
too much as well and and rather I don't

2711
01:39:27,169 --> 01:39:25,560
want to spend my time just answering the

2712
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:27,179
same questions but or being attacked and

2713
01:39:30,590 --> 01:39:28,320
stuff as we've all been over the years

2714
01:39:32,750 --> 01:39:30,600
so I kind of keep it so that we can but

2715
01:39:35,209 --> 01:39:32,760
I really love people to come onto the

2716
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:35,219
group and make disc and open up healthy

2717
01:39:39,410 --> 01:39:37,920
discussions of All Views I'm not I'm not

2718
01:39:41,030 --> 01:39:39,420
biased and say hey you've got to be a

2719
01:39:42,950 --> 01:39:41,040
believer you know but it's got to be

2720
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:42,960
respectful and so on and so forth and

2721
01:39:46,129 --> 01:39:44,639
I've got a YouTube channel same name

2722
01:39:47,689 --> 01:39:46,139
Against the Grain

2723
01:39:49,370 --> 01:39:47,699
um and that's videos and bits and pieces

2724
01:39:51,290 --> 01:39:49,380
we've published over the years

2725
01:39:52,910 --> 01:39:51,300
and there was a crop circle Reporter

2726
01:39:54,649 --> 01:39:52,920
website that I used to run with Michael

2727
01:39:56,570 --> 01:39:54,659
Glickman that's got a bunch of videos on

2728
01:39:59,450 --> 01:39:56,580
from back in the day

2729
01:40:00,830 --> 01:39:59,460
um 2008 sort of areas as well so yeah

2730
01:40:02,390 --> 01:40:00,840
you can find me find me through those

2731
01:40:03,890 --> 01:40:02,400
sources and you can message me through

2732
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:03,900
Facebook as well if you need me to

2733
01:40:07,490 --> 01:40:05,280
answer any questions I'll try to answer

2734
01:40:10,010 --> 01:40:07,500
them brilliant I'll make sure all those

2735
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,020
links are in the description as well so

2736
01:40:14,209 --> 01:40:12,239
Gary and Karen thank you very much for

2737
01:40:16,490 --> 01:40:14,219
joining me it's been a pleasure to

2738
01:40:18,709 --> 01:40:16,500
finally get the crop circle topic under

2739
01:40:20,330 --> 01:40:18,719
the microscope on the podcast and I'm

2740
01:40:22,070 --> 01:40:20,340
sure I will do again in future so thank

2741
01:40:25,010 --> 01:40:22,080
you both oh thank you so much for

2742
01:40:27,470 --> 01:40:25,020
inviting us Andy which is a real honor

2743
01:40:29,390 --> 01:40:27,480
absolute pleasure thanks very much that

2744
01:40:31,310 --> 01:40:29,400
is all for this week's show thank you

2745
01:40:33,530 --> 01:40:31,320
very much for listening please remember

2746
01:40:36,770 --> 01:40:33,540
to leave the podcast a review on your

2747
01:40:38,390 --> 01:40:36,780
chosen platform you can like retweet And

2748
01:40:40,550 --> 01:40:38,400
subscribe that would all be very much

2749
01:40:42,649 --> 01:40:40,560
appreciated the shows are being uploaded

2750
01:40:44,810 --> 01:40:42,659
onto YouTube as we speak more and more

2751
01:40:47,330 --> 01:40:44,820
you can sign up at patreon.com forward

2752
01:40:49,430 --> 01:40:47,340
slash that UFO podcast to access it

2753
01:40:51,830 --> 01:40:49,440
shows ad free as well please get in

2754
01:40:54,830 --> 01:40:51,840
touch on Twitter Facebook Instagram that

2755
01:40:58,370 --> 01:40:54,840
UFO podcast of course on Twitter it's at

2756
01:41:00,229 --> 01:40:58,380
UFO UAP am and again folks as always

2757
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:00,239
keep looking up you never know what you

2758
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:02,010
might see

2759
01:41:29,130 --> 01:41:37,490
[Music]

2760
01:41:37,500 --> 01:41:53,689
oh

2761
01:41:58,570 --> 01:41:56,090
jump back in there and kiss myself and I

2762
01:42:03,850 --> 01:41:58,580
climbed out the

2763
01:42:08,270 --> 01:42:06,109
they thought it was a dream they thought

2764
01:42:19,149 --> 01:42:08,280
it was my toys

2765
01:42:41,470 --> 01:42:19,159
[Music]

2766
01:42:46,590 --> 01:42:43,970
consider your space consider your lies

2767
01:42:56,030 --> 01:42:46,600
consider your life